tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post4789122884201443057..comments2024-03-20T11:09:50.796+00:00Comments on voiceforchildren: The Jersey Way/Hot-Seat.voiceforchildrenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16825129148579102037noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-6903148231270286672017-08-17T01:38:55.218+01:002017-08-17T01:38:55.218+01:00I have to say that these words sound exactly like ...I have to say that these words sound exactly like what a policeman of that rank would say. And I reckon that would be quite easy to demonstrate - e.g. by searching for police statements made in similar circumstances.<br /><br />I do not think this is worth pursuing.<br />Danielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-81294085443926910782017-08-16T22:22:28.480+01:002017-08-16T22:22:28.480+01:00How would Ben Shenton know what went on in the Sta...How would Ben Shenton know what went on in the States? He was hardly ever there.BEN GONE BY TENnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-44326184193493523832017-08-16T21:13:30.761+01:002017-08-16T21:13:30.761+01:00Voice @ 15:25
Lewis's term for his statement ...Voice @ 15:25<br /><br />Lewis's term for his statement in the States was that it was "merely informational" the point being that he did not need to persuade them of anything in order to obtain a vote.<br /><br />I'm afraid, in my enthusiasm, I described this as a courtesy statement which is a different thing and, as you rightly point out, it was not.<br /><br />Mea culpa.Pólóhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08661092894104384856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-13196282934294888622017-08-16T19:22:47.283+01:002017-08-16T19:22:47.283+01:00It stands to reason that Home Affairs Minister of ...It stands to reason that Home Affairs Minister of that time,Senator Kinnard, had no intentions to suspend Chief of Police of that time. That's why Andrew Lewis was brought in. He went straight in with the suspension of Graham Power after reassurance from the Walker, Ogley, Bailhaches that it would be a piece of p###....Thank God that In-camera States debate was leaked!? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-38385240048351660052017-08-16T18:08:36.907+01:002017-08-16T18:08:36.907+01:00Why was Bailhache allowed to give a speech to the ...Why was Bailhache allowed to give a speech to the PPC? There is nothing in Standing Orders that permits this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-23036547197862827372017-08-16T15:25:28.725+01:002017-08-16T15:25:28.725+01:00Polo.
Re; "he was not trying to get the Stat...Polo.<br /><br />Re; "he was not trying to get the States to vote for the suspension. He was just telling them about it out of courtesy."<br /><br />He was NOT telling the States out of "courtesy." He was legally obliged to inform the States he had (possibly illegally) suspended the Chief of Police. He had no choice other than to "tell them about it." It was "legal obligation" not, as it seems Senator Bailhache wants to convince people, a "courtesy."voiceforchildrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16825129148579102037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-23268390546065919322017-08-16T14:38:08.090+01:002017-08-16T14:38:08.090+01:00I have just read the transcript from the PPC heari...I have just read the transcript from the PPC hearing and a few things struck me.<br /><br />Philip Bailhache's appearance on behalf/friend of Lewis is a stroke of genius on his part. <br /><br />He gets to display his lawyerly qualities and, most importantly, gets a chance to have a go at the Inquiry from the high moral ground – remedying an appalling injustice! And all still under privilege.<br /><br />It should not be forgotten that he was not exactly enamoured of the Inquiry in the past and that it did criticise him severely, a fact he omitted mentioning when enumerating the “one victim of the Inquiry”.<br /><br />Clearly Stuart Syvret should have got Philip Bailhache to draft his original (unsuccesful) application for legal cover to the Inquiry. You need a real lawyer for this sort of a job.<br /><br />As for his dissection of the term “lie”, something kept resonating in my head, and then it struck me. 'Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” After he had said this, he went back outside to the Jews and told them, “I find no guilt in him.” ' John 18:38 Exegesis can sometimes be your friend. Despite this, Jesus did not come well out of it.<br /><br />One plank of Lewis's defence against his having lied was a lack of motive. After all, he told us, he was not trying to get the States to vote for the suspension. He was just telling them about it out of courtesy. That reminded me that the reason they went for suspension rather than dismissal was that they could avoid needing a States vote on the matter and, with the complicity of the political/judicial system, keep Graham Power on ice for as long as suited them, denying him his rights along the way.<br /><br />Of course Lewis had motive to invoke the full weight of the “MET Report”. He needed every bit of backing available for the heinous act he had just committed. The fact that the actual contents of the report did not justify suspension, and that he was not supposed to use it for disciplinary purposes anyway, did not deter this desperate man in his efforts to justify his actions. Even the powerful warning by the Bailiff/Speaker to shut up went unheeded.<br /><br />There's at least a pair of them in it.<br />Pólóhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08661092894104384856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-2293740544362651902017-08-16T14:23:19.075+01:002017-08-16T14:23:19.075+01:00I know they are. I know they are. The Accredited Troll.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-79178442162997720702017-08-16T13:53:59.712+01:002017-08-16T13:53:59.712+01:00Anonymous @ 13:38
I wouldn't rule out publica...Anonymous @ 13:38<br /><br />I wouldn't rule out publication yet.<br /><br />New commenters are supposed to be moderated initially and then when they have proven themselves later comments just sail through.<br /><br />So if you are a new commenter, or appear to be, you will be shunted into the moderation queue and will definitely appear, if you do, after later posted comments.<br /><br />Been there, done that.<br /><br />Pólóhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08661092894104384856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-33319201646639641862017-08-16T13:38:15.371+01:002017-08-16T13:38:15.371+01:00Dear VFC,
The JEP have decided ( so far ) not to ...<br />Dear VFC,<br /><br />The JEP have decided ( so far ) not to publish a rebuff of Ben Shenton's article in their comments section although newer comments are now up. Of course that is their right. One does wonder if the reason is that I give bloggers credit and the media none. Please publish if you think the said item is worthy.<br /><br />Dear JEP,<br /><br />DW's factual and accurate response offer’s a complete annihilation of the rubbish that ex Health Minister Mr Shenton wrote in the above article, DW being far more truthful, focused and accurate<br /><br />I always thought of Ben Shenton as one of the more intelligent and factual based people in politics but no more. He dislikes bloggers, probably because some are educated, articulate, accurate and show up politicians who lie or bulls**t<br /><br />ITV.<br /><br />" Ben Shenton voted against holding the inquiry " ( sic )<br /><br />http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2017-07-04/states-need-to-make-the-most-of-the-ridiculous-amount-of-money-spent-on-inquiry/ <br /><br />BBC.<br /><br />" Senator Shenton thanked his supporters and said he wanted to return to politics at some time in the future".<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-14682943<br /><br />Should he ever decide to stand for public office again he has blown it. Not wanting an enquiry into child abuse protects the establishment which Francis Oldham found badly at fault. <br /><br />He is another public liability dinosaur that does not realise that an educated public can understand and read reports, and statements of fact, and knows how to use the world wide internet web. <br /><br />He should do the same and become truthful and not support a states member whom PPC have agreed ( with the findings of the inquiry panel ) lied and mislead the States. Andrew Lewis quoted a police report he had no access to, but did receive a letter from Mr Warcup the very man that was desperate to get Graham Powers job. <br /><br />States members failed to have confidence in Mr Warcup's actions and work and refused to support his application for the job of permanent chief of police. So he left <br /><br />BBC<br /><br />"He says delays in the States' validating the appointment and political hostility directed towards him are the reasons for his decision.<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-10690882<br /><br />Thanks to DW and other informed honest researched people.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-51192854215888383162017-08-16T13:07:39.917+01:002017-08-16T13:07:39.917+01:00No.No.voiceforchildrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16825129148579102037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-83795143935914472612017-08-16T13:06:07.562+01:002017-08-16T13:06:07.562+01:00Anybody else get the feeling that Andrew Lewis has...Anybody else get the feeling that Andrew Lewis has made an enemy of the JEP perhaps through one of his marketing companies, so they are settling an old score? The Accredited Trollnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-16503113271127262882017-08-16T10:46:36.736+01:002017-08-16T10:46:36.736+01:00The JEP is running a poll asking if Andrew Lewis s...The JEP is running a poll asking if Andrew Lewis should resign. Unbelievably it was showing 26 percent had voted "NO." Readers can vote <a href="http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2017/08/16/poll-should-deputy-andrew-lewis-resign/" rel="nofollow">HERE.</a>voiceforchildrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16825129148579102037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-3187865239614489192017-08-16T10:09:43.439+01:002017-08-16T10:09:43.439+01:00Thank you for taking the time out in ripping apart...Thank you for taking the time out in ripping apart the Shenton story. I have been in contact with former DCO/SIO Lenny Harper who has agreed to respond to the article and I hope to be publishing his Guest Posting in a couple of days.voiceforchildrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16825129148579102037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-44900085248013616492017-08-16T09:21:57.288+01:002017-08-16T09:21:57.288+01:00Hopefully you mean Sean Power 23.47!!Hopefully you mean Sean Power 23.47!!Constables outhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17416380819364502880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-4836000983128163132017-08-16T05:48:02.173+01:002017-08-16T05:48:02.173+01:005
Ben Shenton writes: “when Deputy Lewis said duri...5<br />Ben Shenton writes: “when Deputy Lewis said during the in-camera debate that he had ‘read an alarming report from the Metropolitan Police’ I did not think anything of it, for so had I”<br />That is 2 lies for the price of one.<br />NEITHER Ben Shenton NOR Andrew Lewis had read the Metropolitan Interim Report, at that time. We know this from the Napier Report<br />6<br />Ben Shenton writes: “Deputy Lewis currently heads the only government body (the Public Accounts Committee) that can officially examine the legal costs of the Inquiry.<br />“I wonder what this whole saga really is all about, as it has nothing to do with childcare and nothing positive can come of it.”<br />Shenton is suggesting here that the reason that the Inquiry has stated that Lewis lied to the States and to the Inquiry is that Lewis is in a position as chair of the Public Accounts Committee to launch an investigation into the COI’s spending.<br />At one level, this is a nasty piece of innuendo. It is also a laughable suggestion, as anyone who actually reads the relevant passages in the COI report into Lewis’s lying can see for themselves. The case against Lewis is rock solid. The IJCI is not inventing criticisms, they are reporting their finding of fact.<br />So, why does Shenton write like this?<br />If we are to improve child care in Jersey, the exact opposite of what Shenton writes is true. Lewis and what he did is dead centre of improving child care in Jersey.<br />The Chief of Police of Jersey was ousted unfairly, with no evidence, and to “get away with it” Lewis lied to the States according to a well-resourced public inquiry led by a senior QC - and we still do not know the reason why all this happened.<br />Shenton still wants cover-up and deception. I hope that most of us do not."BS" Shenton supports Lewis' Lies for Paedo Cover-Up ........http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2017/08/15/comment-why-take-this-line-of-inquiry/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-8244261468574464632017-08-16T05:47:49.815+01:002017-08-16T05:47:49.815+01:00With thanks to "DW" August 15, 2017 11:2...With thanks to "DW" August 15, 2017 11:29 pm <br />Where to start??<br />Well let’s start at the beginning and go through the numerous falsehoods in this piece.<br />The question of course, as with all attempts to mislead, is ‘why would anyone want to mislead’?<br />1<br />Ben Shenton writes: “…………. a random BBC News headline from 31 July 2008. .... ‘Remains of at least five children aged between 4 and 11 have been found in the search of a former children’s home in Jersey, police have said.’<br />David James Smith, in a lengthy piece for the Sunday Times, (4500 words) published May 10th 2009, said this:<br />“I had written in detail about the child-abuse inquiry last year. I had never given much credence to the more lurid tales of possible homicides, mainly because I had been counselled against them by Lenny Harper. There were no missing children, he said, clearly and often, and there was no evidence of murder”<br />2<br />Ben Shenton writes: “the Independent Jersey Care Inquiry (IJCI) Report correctly states that I had no wish to interfere with the core child abuse inquiry”<br />Nowhere do they say this. They say something which is related but far from the same. But the Report does make clear that Shenton did not support the Police investigation, and his actions tended to undermine it:<br />They write a lot on this matter and conclude (Paragraph 10.294)<br />“We find that Ministers in general recognised that, however unpalatable the outcome of Operation Rectangle might prove to be, the Police investigation had to be permitted to run its course unhindered. The alternative, leading to public accusations of cover-up, would have been far worse for Jersey’s reputation, and we find that politicians recognised that fact.<br />“10.295 Nevertheless, we accept that CO Graham Power would have felt under<br />pressure from the public opposition voiced by Senator Ben Shenton and<br />others.”<br />3<br />Ben Shenton claims that the suspension of former Police Chief Graham Power was a neutral act.<br />The Solicitor General at the time (Tim Le Cocq) said this to the IJCI (Day 132 transcript page 107):<br />Inquiry lawyer:<br />“Did you recognise the reality that if the Chief Officer of Police was suspended his position would be so damaged he was never actually going to come back?"<br />Tim le Cocq :<br />“I think I recognised -- I certainly recognised that it is a momentus (sic) thing to suspend the chief officer of police in any jurisdiction, that there would be an enormous amount of public interest and public input if that happened and it would make his position very difficult going forward, particularly if what came out<br />of it was not a total vindication of his position. So yes, I would have been alive to that.”<br />4<br />Ben Shenton writes: “A Metropolitan Police Report was quoted from and it showed how the Island had been ‘stitched-up like a kipper’ with regard to the murder allegations.”<br />Very strange that. I have just re-read the Met Interim Report, (as it ended up being leaked) and it says no such thing. I challenge Ben Shenton to justify this sentence.<br />In fact the Interim report is bland and simply cannot justify a suspension. And indeed using it for disciplinary purposes was a very very serious breach of correct procedure by Warcup and Lewis who should have known better, and probably did know better.<br />CONTINUED"BS" Shenton supports Lewis' Lies for Paedo Cover-Up ........http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2017/08/15/comment-why-take-this-line-of-inquiry/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-38225477783004212412017-08-15T23:57:42.957+01:002017-08-15T23:57:42.957+01:00Sometimes it is best to completely ignore the Shen...Sometimes it is best to completely ignore the Shentons, Le Mains, Powers and Perchards.<br />Showing online frustration and annoyance only feeds their egos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-40471499865473345212017-08-15T23:06:46.792+01:002017-08-15T23:06:46.792+01:00Ben Shenton's article in the JEP leaves itself...<br />Ben Shenton's article in the JEP leaves itself open to many omissions. Over to the bloggers to put him factually right.<br /><br />He really has nailed his establishment colours to the mast, the mast being in the centre of the " Jersey Way Square " <br /><br />The Inquiry Report is lifting stones and look who and what is crawling out.<br /><br />http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2017/08/15/comment-why-take-this-line-of-inquiry/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-83842281566517481322017-08-15T20:58:33.998+01:002017-08-15T20:58:33.998+01:00Maybe.
But the problem the States of Jersey have...Maybe. <br /><br />But the problem the States of Jersey have (with their refusal to have any sort of separation of powers) is that all of their emails and documents are in the "gov.je" email system. i.e. A government system. The clue is in the title. A government email system supported by central government employees, stored on central government hardware. And therefore subject to FOI, subject to the usual exclusions.<br /><br />If these people were really interested in separation of powers, they would run their own email system "@lawofficers.je" or even better, a separate "@crownprosecutionservice.je". But they don't. They continue to be part of "@gov.je". They can't be part of the government's systems then not part of the government's systems when it suits them. Who do they think they are, Mr K?<br /><br />At the very least, whatever got produced on the computers of Ian Crich, Bill Ogley and David Warcup should be subject to FOI.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-71593293458946075042017-08-15T20:03:21.751+01:002017-08-15T20:03:21.751+01:00Ha... no chance. If it originated in the law offic...Ha... no chance. If it originated in the law officers department, it will be conveniently hidden behind the iron curtain of legal privilege.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-8358734499526358572017-08-15T19:53:03.488+01:002017-08-15T19:53:03.488+01:00Anonymous @ 19:22
Good observation. But, (i) the ...Anonymous @ 19:22<br /><br />Good observation. But, (i) the records (incl backups) may turn out to be "missing" (à la best UK Home Office practice), and (ii) the earlier metadata problem was not a technical one, it was a lack of political will by those who knew exactly what they were doing, & likely to be repeated. <br /><br />Mind you, the Complaints Board, if it still has its teeth might allow the issue to be forced.Pólóhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08661092894104384856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-13448206576657048952017-08-15T19:22:20.010+01:002017-08-15T19:22:20.010+01:00Interesting comment at 11:30.
It would take a com...Interesting comment at 11:30.<br /><br />It would take a competent forensic computer expert about half an hour to find the origin of that phrase in the States of Jersey email system and/or their document management systems. They might have to restore some backups if the original source has been deleted, but it would be pretty straightforward to establish the provenance of that phrase, in electronic format.<br /><br />The problem with these old duffer cover up merchants is that they don't understand the technology. Terry Le Sueur and the cover up of the suspension metadata comes to mind...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-38361207779291732232017-08-15T19:17:00.140+01:002017-08-15T19:17:00.140+01:00‘I believe these failings have the potential to un...‘I believe these failings have the potential to undermine<br />the integrity and reputation of the force and to seriously affect public confidence in policing in the<br />Island.’"<br />The people who came up with these words for Warcup, are the same people who promised Warcup the top job if he was prepared to go along with the illegal suspension of Top Cop, Graham Power....<br />Wonder who these people are? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3591695769525894359.post-43531284158189836412017-08-15T18:20:47.398+01:002017-08-15T18:20:47.398+01:00"The Care Inquiry has been and gone and that ..."The Care Inquiry has been and gone and that was the train"<br /><br />Thank you for explaining the obvious but we got the analogy.<br /><br />But as said:<br /><br />a) -The train left without half the carriages.<br /><br />b) -The ticket is a ticket to where? -Another loop round the insular circular track.<br />Is it a £23m ticket to nowhere???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com