On BBC Radio Jersey he was telling the listeners that things have changed since the promise of an inquiry was made back in 2008. He told us that back then people believed there were children’s bodies found up at Haute de la Garenne which turned out not to be true. The more astute listener would have picked up that he said there were no “bodies” - not that there were no body “parts”. With that in mind I sent the following e-mail to the Senator.
To Ian le Marquand
Date Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 9:35 AM
Subject "Part" 1
Senator.
After listening to your interview the other day on BBC Radio Jersey where you said there were no "bodies" found at HDLG which is one of the "reasons" the COM's won't be supporting a committee of inquiry I became intrigued, or curious, and hope you can help by answering a few questions for me, so there is no confusion and those dreaded conspiracy theories can be kept at bay?
1. Were you choosing your words carefully when you said there were no "bodies" and not "body parts"
2. Are you in agreement with me that there were numerous juvenile body parts recovered at HDLG?
3. Going by the "evidence" that is in the public domain would you say, on the balance of probabilities that if children weren't murdered at HDLG, child's remains were disposed of up there?
4. What "evidence" are you able to provide to "prove" how a piece of child's skull containing 1.6% collagen (only found in Mammals) can turn into a piece of Coconut?
Kind Regards.
VFC. (End)
I am not expecting a reply to that e-mail because Senator Le Marquand has proved unable or unwilling to answer any questions that involve “proof” and “evidence” especially when it comes to Jar/6 (the skull)
So let’s start with the myths and evidence surrounding the child’s skull (Jar/6) that was recovered at Haute de la Garenne or the “Coconut” as the “accredited” media like to call it.
Deputy Daniel Wimberley: (d) provide a full and proper audit trail of the emails concerning the finds JAR/6 and SLJ/1?
Senator Ian Le Marquand: (d) I do not understand what is meant by "audit trails of e-mails". However, this appears to also be referring to statements or other evidence.(End) Now that is what's classed as an "answer" in the world of Ian Le Marquand.
Why Deputy Wimberley was concerned about the audit trail of JAR/6 is explained in an extract from an e-mail from SOJP Anthroplogist Julie Roberts here "On 8 and 9 April 2008 I re-examined JAR/6. Since I initially examined the fragment it had dried out considerably and changed in colour, texture and weight." (my emphasis).
So it changed in colour, texture and weight? How could this happen? Which is a question I put the Former SIO Lenny Harper. I wanted to know if there was any chance that this piece of evidence could have been switched? And this is what he told me.
"we sent it (JAR/6) to the carbon dating lab in oxford. Not only did they cock that process up, (as per the collagen e mails) but they unlawfully and without authority sent the exhibit to at least two other people without even a proper tracking audit. This rendered the exhibit inadmissible and unusable in court as we could not prove it was the same item we found and sent to them."
Which is a clear and concice answer unlike the "answer" given to Deputy Wimberley by the Home Affairs Minister, Senator Le Marquand. Perhaps Deputy Wimberley might consider asking the question again? Because the "evidence" does point towards a "switch."
Then we have the accusation, or myth, that Mr. Harper just dug Haute de la Garenne up on a whim and that it was a waste of tax payers money etc. But alongside those accusations and myths we have this “Summary Report” which tends to blow those myths clean out of the water. Not withstanding the dig was endorsed by the National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) after meeting a very stringent 5 phase criteria. We will look to publish the entire NPIA Report in the coming days.
On top of this we have a log entry that describes bone that was “fresh and fleshed” when burnt. In her log Julie Roberts documents a telephone conversation she has with Professor Chamberlain of Sheffield Uni. It speaks for itself.
1 May 2008
“I received a telephone update from Professor Chamberlain. He said that preliminary analysis had shown that the fragments KSH137 were almost certainly human juvenile bone, but he wanted to confirm his findings by comparing them to a known juvenile sample. He also stated that the bones were in a good condition and he felt that they had sufficient collagen in them for C14 dating to be successful. He also stated that the bones were slightly burnt and that in his opinion this had occurred when the remains were still fresh and fleshed as no microbial activity was evident.”
So according to Professor Camberlain "the bones were in a good condition and he felt that they had sufficient collagen in them for C14 dating? Would that be the same collagen that only exists in Mammals, the same collagen that was found in JAR/6?
The report written by Professor Chamberlain is another of those Reports that seems to have vanished into thin air, fallen through a gap in the floor boards or fallen into the notorious shredder along with the hand written notes of Graham Power's suspension meeting.
We will look to obtain and publish the entire Report soon but for now we re-produce a redacted part of it in order to place a little more "evidence" in the public domain.
The bone material shows features that are diagnostically human and most likely represent the remains of a juvenile person. The state of preservation of the remains indicates that they had been exposed to heat but this had been insufficient to cause much biomolecular damage (indeed, by sterilising the material the heating may have had the effect of reducing the opportunity for subsequent microbial damage to occur). The material is sufficiently well preserved to enable further chemical analysis including extraction of collagen for radiocarbon dating and dietary isotopic analysis, and the state of preservation of the material may render it suitable for the extraction and characterisation of biomarkers such as DNA. (End) Any idea's how that Report managed to be forotten, or vanished, in all this?
He claims that no “bodies” were recovered or un-covered so there are no questions that need answering there. Taken from the "Summary Report" there are people who will want to find out what happened to this lot?
Other burnt bone fragments were also recovered from the context within this area.
The EVRD alert indications were confirmed by intrusive archaeological excavation and sieving. A significant number of bone fragments and teeth have been recovered which have been corroborated as human.
Predominantly the human remains have been recovered from cellars 3, 4 and 5 which historically were one large classroom.
Enquiries at this time are suggestive that the human remains were deposited in this area and covered with top soil in a deliberate act of concealment. The deposition could only have taken place during a period of time when the floor had been removed. Research into the historical renovation of the property suggests that the floor above cellars 3, 4 &5 was taken up in the late 60’s early 70’s.
Karl Harrison’s archaeological theory of the burnt debris including human bone fragments and teeth being deposited in the east wing cellars from the west wing is contained within this report. This theory is suggestive that the solid fuel furnace in operation in the west wing around the time of 1960 – 1970 may have been used to dispose of human remains.
Enquiries to date are showing that the original solid fuel central heating and hot water supply furnace in the west wing was replaced in the late 60’s early 70’s with oil fired furnaces. This may have coincided with the floor in cellars 3, 4 & 5 being removed. This would explain the deposition of the bone fragments and teeth with ash deposits as being the
waste from the furnace upon decommissioning. It would also suggest some element of ‘guilty knowledge’.
The tests clearly indicated the presence of human remains decomposition scent.
Remains identified by the resident forensic anthropologist Miss Julie Roberts as human, and items of interest to the enquiry, have been submitted for forensic analysis.
Forty eight human deciduous teeth have been recovered to date. Twenty six of which are presently in the UK being examined to identify the number of individuals from whom they originate.
Numerous bone fragments are being examined at Sheffield University for histology purposes.
The meticulous search of Haut De La Garenne has now been completed and the building handed over to Property Services. Evidence has been obtained to support the abuse enquiry and suggestive evidence that the remains of at least one child were present within the structure of the building.
A significant amount of human remains have been recovered that is suggestive of foul play in relation to the cause of death and guilty knowledge during deposition.
65 Human deciduous teeth
Numerous human bone fragments
It would appear at this stage that the remains were deposited into the area of cellars 3,4 &5 having been removed from a secondary deposition site in the west wing. They were then distributed evenly over the ground and covered with a layer of top soil so as to conceal the deposition from all but the most meticulous scrutiny. (End)
This, of course, only deals with the un-answered questions of human remains. Team Voice will be asking a lot more questions that have not been answered, and we’re sure readers, and States Members, will have a few of their own.
VFC
ReplyDeleteWell, we'll be having a chance to ask Warcup and Gradwell a few questions - as they're going to be subpoenaed in my appeal case - which is looking more and more like a full re-trial.
Stuart
This really is incredible work you bloggers are putting in. POST after POST full of well researched evidence. What you fine people are doing is asking the type of questions that anyone working for the MSN should be asking. What has the Government of Jersey released so far in its defence? 20% of a Wiltshire report? Just like in Egypt the Internet is rocking this Government but lets not forget. You still need brave people to operate the keyboard.
ReplyDeleteMy only disappointment in reading this is that it is not in the wider public domain.
ReplyDeleteIf all the people of Jersey knew all this the government would collapse overnight. It would be their worst nightmare. They really don't want the public at large to know all this stuff.
Any ideas on how to get the info out there?
word verification 'unity' - I kid you not!
Haaaaaaaaang on a minute here
ReplyDeleteLets go back to the Warcup/Gradwell interviews/ press releases of November 12 2008. Where the hell was this? and was it mentioned?
"The bone material shows features that are diagnostically human and most likely represent the remains of a juvenile person. The state of preservation of the remains indicates that they had been exposed to heat but this had been insufficient to cause much biomolecular damage (indeed, by sterilising the material the heating may have had the effect of reducing the opportunity for subsequent microbial damage to occur). The material is sufficiently well preserved to enable further chemical analysis including extraction of collagen for radiocarbon dating and dietary isotopic analysis, and the state of preservation of the material may render it suitable for the extraction and characterisation of biomarkers such as DNA."
Do you know what the final results were? Just how big could this alleged cover up be? I have read the above a number of times now and I still cant believe what i,m reading.
This is Great Work. The last two posts have been right on the money.
Here’s a piece of “evidence” that didn’t get on to the main posting that makes for uncomfortable reading.
ReplyDeleteJAR/30 Burnt bone fragments x2 larger piece appears to be fragment of juvenile tibia. Section suggests age of 4 to 8 years.
That wasn’t in any Press Release from Gradwell or Warcup either.
This is some of the stuff that Gradwell and Warcup churned out in there Press Release in November 2008. It was broadcast and published by our “accredited” media totally un-questioned just churned out. But what happens when it is questioned?
ReplyDeleteThe Cellars
These are floor voids. They are not cellars, and it is impossible for a grown person to stand up straight in the floor voids under Haut de la Garenne. WRONG!
I will address the “teeth” a bit later.
Harper: I did nothing wrong
ReplyDeleteBy Diane Simon 13 Nov 2008
Lenny Harper has strongly defended his leadership of the historical child abuse inquiry and says that his handling of the media was vital in bringing victims forward.
The former deputy police chief who headed the historical child abuse inquiry has reacted to claims made yesterday by new deputy police chief David Warcup that some of the information given by the police during the inquiry had been inaccurate.
Asked whether he was completely satisfied with the way he had handled the case, or whether he had let emotion and the momentum of the inquiry, coupled with the media spotlight, affect his judgment, he said: ‘Emotion played no part in it. I am too experienced for that and have too much experience in the front line of policing critical situations.’
Speaking from his home in Ayrshire, Scotland, he added: ‘The momentum of the inquiry was irrelevant. The officers talking to victims did a brilliant job in earning trust and a willingness to assist. The media treatment of the inquiry was vital in bringing victims forward. I did nothing for me’.
He added that no one with any sense could have ever been totally satisfied with their performance and that with hindsight, there were one or two things he might have done differently.
Yesterday the new officer leading the investigation, Detective Superintendent Mick Gradwell, told the local and national media that no children were murdered at Haut de la Garenne, that no bodies were hidden or burnt there and that there was no evidence that the 65 children’s teeth had not come out naturally.
The fragment which Mr Harper had described in February as ‘the potential remains of a child’ was neither bone nor human, according to those who examined it, Mr Gradwell added.
Mr Harper responded today by saying that anyone with knowledge of what he had said would have known that he had always maintained that although they were treating the scene as that of a potential homicide, they had no homicide inquiry. He also said that officers claiming yesterday that there had been no murders were saying nothing he had not said before.
Asked if he should have had hard evidence before he made the decision to excavate at Haut de la Garenne, he said that, like everything in the inquiry, it had been intelligence-led.
He said: ‘We not only had statements alleging horrific abuse, we also had intelligence that there were human remains buried there, a local advocate had a client stating that a child was buried there, and an eye-witness statement alleged that an incident had occurred there which must have resulted in a serious injury to a child at least, with the added information that the child was not seen again.’
That had been the reason why they had gone to the UK and met a forensic science organisation, the National Policing Agency in the areas of search, anthropology, archaeology, canine research, and other disciplines, he said.
‘We made the decision to enter and screen the area and the decision to excavate certain areas came as finds were made and information received,’ he added.
Did he regret calling the fragment found on 23 February ‘the potential remains of a child?’ He said: ‘No. It was the potential remains of a child. It has never been identified definitely. The lab who carried out in-depth analysis found collagen in the sample. We have never been told how this came to be. Collagen is only found in mammals, not wood or coconut. Warcup and Gradwell seem to ignore this,’ he said.
Mr Harper said that he was dismayed and disgusted that the police chief, Graham Power, had been suspended over the historic child abuse case. He said he had been an outstanding chief officer for the Island. ‘Before his arrival, the HMI report on the force was highly critical and described an inward-looking and backward force, and he has transformed it, leading to the last two reports being glowing,’ Mr Harper said.
Just a little more “evidence” that I have taken from Stuart Syvret’s Blog in which Lenny Harper submitted a Guest Posting
ReplyDeleteJAR/30: 3-4; 1940s to 1980s. Two fragments of burnt bone one is fragment of longbone? Tibia. Submitted to University of Sheffield with KSH/158. Origin confirmed as human. Submitted for dating awaiting results.
JAR/33: 3-4; 1940s to 1980’s.
Calcined fragment of bone. ?human.
JAR/53: 183. Cellar 3 Dark char rich deposit equivalent to 169.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
5 fragments of calcined long bone ?human.
JAR/54: 183. Cellar 3 Dark char rich deposit equivalent to 169.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
4 fragments of calcined bone ?human.
JAR/55: 183. Cellar 3 Dark char rich deposit equivalent to 169.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
1 fragment of calcined bone ?human.
JAR/57:183. Cellar 3 Dark char rich deposit equivalent to 169.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
2 fragments of bone of unknown origin.
JAR/56: 183. Cellar 3 Dark char rich deposit equivalent to 169.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
1 fragment of bone ?human.
JAR/67: 183. Zone 3 East Cellar 3.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
Human Tooth: deciduous left maxillary first molar, age 9 yrs ± 3 yrs. Could have been shed naturally (Anthro exam).
Submitted to odontologist, see report.
JAR/69: 183. Zone 3 East Cellar 3.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
Fragments x 3 of possible human cortical bone.
JAR/61: 183 Zone 4 East Cellar 3.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
23 Fragments of bone:
1 Burnt fragment which closely resembles a human juvenile mastoid process.
2. Burnt fragment of ?human mandible.
3. Fragments of burnt long bone x 3 measuring between 11.3 and 16.3 mm.
4. Fragments of unidentified burnt cortical and trabecular bone x 7.
5. Fragment of slightly burnt long bone measuring 33 mm. The cortex of the
bone resembles human but it is quite thick and the trabeculae can not be seen because it requires cleaning. It appears to have been cut at one end.
6. Fragments of unburnt unidentified long bone. x 3 The appearance and texture of the cortex of the fragments appears more animal than human but it is advised that further examination should be undertaken in order to confirm this.
7. Fragments of unidentified long bone x 7. 5 have been burnt and 2 haven’t. Species
uncertain although two of the burnt fragments could possibly be human
JAR/90: 183 Cellar 3 Zone 3 East.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
Fragments of unidentified bone of unknown species. One which is calcined is possibly human bone.
Cellar 4 Context 169 (redeposited char material from fire elsewhere. Unsealed)
JAR/36: 169. Cellar 4 E. Charred material at southern end of Zone 4. Equivalent to 127.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
Fragment of bone ?human.
JAR/37: 169. Cellar 4 E. Charred material at southern end of Zone 4. Equivalent to 127.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
Fragment of burnt bone. ?human mastoid process
JAR/39: 169. Cellar 4 E. Charred material at southern end of Zone 4. Equivalent to 127.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
Fragment of burnt bone ?human.
JAR/40: 169. Cellar 4 E. Charred material at southern end of Zone 4. Equivalent to 127.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
Fragment of bone ?human.
GMK/18: 169. Cellar 4 E. Charred material at southern end of Zone 4. Equivalent to 127.
4 / 5: 1960s to present date.
Human tooth. Anthro exam – deciduous left maxillary lateral incisor. Age range 6 yrs ± 2yrs
"Yesterday the new officer leading the investigation, Detective Superintendent Mick Gradwell, told the local and national media that no children were murdered at Haut de la Garenne, that no bodies were hidden or burnt there and that there was no evidence that the 65 children’s teeth had not come out naturally."
ReplyDeleteThis might sound like a stupid question but did Gradwell and Warcup ever step foot inside Haut de la Garenne? Does Graham Power know this?
The reason for asking is concerning the cellars. As far as I know the building was handed back at the end of July 2008. Did these two police officers ever enter the building before November 12th 2008?
rs
Hi VFC.
ReplyDeleteJust put up the Audio of the interview with Senator Le Marquand.
You can Listen to it Here
VFC and Rico - you are doing sterling work on behalf of the quest for justice and the truth which will then bring some form of closure for the abuse survivors.
ReplyDeleteRest assured, there will be other people working behind the scenes to help Senator Le Gresley and Deputy Hill get this decision changed.
It may be worth asking the question as to where the 'evidence' is now, e.g. a large granite bath, an changing coconut shell.
Still so many questions..........
Deputy Higgins in the States last week mentioned lime pits, with groans from FSLs.Well, what other reason or excuses could be possibly made for lime pits?
ReplyDeleteAlso what ever happened to the blood stained heavy solid concrete and stone bath?
What excuse can they possibly make for its complete and sudden dissappearance?
CURTIS WARREN, THE SIDE EFFECTS
ReplyDeleteOn the radio interview Ian Le Marquand said "We now know there is no evidence whatsoever of bodies of children in Haute de La Garrenne".
ReplyDeleteHe now has a public duty to explain exactly how that applies to the multiple examples of human remains listed in the logs of the forensic anthropologists who examined the site, or tender his resignation.
You are correct ILM should substantiate his claims in light of the "evidence" that proves he is wrong. But as you will see from the main posting I did e-mail him some questions, but he only ever ignores these e-mails.
ReplyDeleteThis demonstrates further how we are living in a dictatorship with State controlled media. Ilm and most other members of the executive can go on the radio and say what they like un-challenged by the presenter(s). When a member of the public asks the questions, in an e-mail, that should have been asked by the presenter the e-mail just gets ignored.
VFC,
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be interesting to put to the forensic scientist who worked the HDLG site Le Marquand's claim of no evidence of children's bodies "whatsoever"?
I'd love to hear their view on this.
ROY LE HERRISER
ReplyDeleteSeptember 2009
Jersey Deputy Roy Le Herissier say the Home Affairs Minister should defend the island's Historic Abuse Enquiry.
The Deputy says the former police officer in charge should NOT have criticised the case.
He says Mick Gradwell's criticism that the enquiry was left in a mess by Lenny Harper was unprofessional.
Deputy Le Herissier's now calling for the Home Affairs Minister to make a public statement and publicly support the investigation.
I have also found this and its shows that back in September 2009 Senator Le Marquand is against an enquiry
ReplyDelete'Inappropriate and unprofessional.'
That's how Jersey's Home Affairs Minister described comments by former police officers in relation to the islands historic abuse investigation..
In the States, Senator Ian Le Marquand said it was regrettable retired officers felt it necessary to publicly criticise the case.
The Home Affairs Minister said it was impossible to know how damming the comments had been. And he was under the impression both Lenny Harper and Mick Gradwell should have been bound by the official secrets act.
He also said an independent enquiry would only duplicate work and would probably be a waste of tax payers money.
22nd September 2009
Not keen then not keen now
rs
Le Marquand has been blown clean out the water with just about everything he says, the bloke is a liability to the States. When he told us that 65 teeth fell through a gap in the floordoards........well what can one say? other than he lives in Cuckoo land, because he truly believes that will convince people, the blokes a lunatic!
ReplyDeleteNotwithstanding the damage he must be doing to the morale of those Police Investigators who spent hours, no, days and days sieving through, by hand all that rubble, dirt etc. Bagging the evidence logging the evidence and so forth, just for somebody like Le Marquand to come along and say "it doesn't exist"!!! Just priceless stuff that could only happen in Jersey.
Jimmy Perchard
ReplyDeleteCURTIS WARREN & THE JERSEY TAX PAYER?
ReplyDeleteDeputy Daniel Wimberley asked Senator Le Marquand, in a written question, for an “audit trail” of JAR/6. Here’s the question he asked and the “answer” he was given.
ReplyDeleteDeputy Daniel Wimberley: (d) provide a full and proper audit trail of the emails concerning the finds JAR/6 and SLJ/1?
Senator Ian Le Marquand: (d) I do not understand what is meant by "audit trails of e-mails". However, this appears to also be referring to statements or other evidence.(End) Now that is what's classed as an "answer" in the world of Ian Le Marquand.
Cuckoo the bloke is cuckoo. Time for a committee of inquiry me thinks.
VFC, is it not time we sent that Syvret posting to Ian Le MeekOne with the JAR NUMBERS AND CONTENTS???
ReplyDeletepril 24, 2008
ReplyDeleteJersey's culture of concealment
Patrick Muirhead
They have a saying on the island of Jersey: “If you don't like it, there's always a boat in the morning.” Four years ago I gladly took those directions - by air, if not by sea - and departed the island and, in so doing, also my TV news career.
After seven years as a BBC Radio 4 newsreader, I was briefly the anchorman of the nightly local ITV news in the Channel Islands, an experience etched in my memory as dismal, embarrassing and shaming. I was shackled from pursuing any punchy journalism in a laughably amateurish TV outfit for fear of upsetting the station's friends, outmanoeuvred by an ambitious co-host and unwelcome in an island where I was an outsider.
The implicit message in the morning boat maxim is that Jersey islanders do not entertain criticism or complaint. And that is how we arrive at the unsurprising revelation that institutional child abuse was covered up for all those years.
Now, as the sinister layers of the island's secrets are unpeeling, and the awkward questions I wished were mine are being asked, I wonder how differently the lives of those at Haut de la Garenne might have been if the media had done its job.
BACKGROUND
Jersey child abuse probe finds bone and teeth
'Bloodstained items' found at Jersey hostel
‘Culture of concealment’ divides Jersey as abuse scandal grows
Jersey cabal 'trying to wreck abuse inquiry'
In an island of 90,000 souls, one is only removed from another by the smallest step of separation. The island's Chief Minister, Frank Walker, had a cameraman son at the TV channel where I worked; a senior politician's mistress was a TV reporter on the island. My co-host's home became a popular salon for politicians and decision-makers. In such an atmosphere of closeness, any meaningful challenge becomes impossible. “You rub people up the wrong way,” she said, primly dismissing my methods.
After I left, my integrity, professional ability and popularity were trashed by a hostile and defensive Jersey media and island population. It is the aggressive defensiveness of Jersey people that may undo any attempt to reconcile the past wrongdoing at Haut de la Garenne. The unwillingness to invite outsiders to probe or criticise is almost insurmountable.
Jersey is entrenched in a concealment culture dating from its wartime Nazi collaboration, reinforced by its shadowy banking industry and confirmed by its new notoriety as a cradle for rampant paedophilia. In such a whisper world, the only audible sound is the gentle rustle of nests being feathered. There are simply too many there with too much to lose.
If Jersey stands any chance of rebuilding the public's shattered affection for an isle of flowers and sandy shores, Bergerac and pretty dairy cattle, there must be expiation, demonstrable remorse and a change in the island's executive.
Perhaps more importantly there should be change in the media that failed to hold the powers to account. Because when the voices of the vulnerable are not heard by authority, the influence of an attentive media is perhaps their last hope. The frightened children incarcerated at Haut de la Garenne must have dreamt that they too could board that boat in the morning.
Patrick Muirhead is a former BBC news reader and Jersey-based reporter
Le Marquand is definitely not cuckoo.
ReplyDeleteHe is committing these crimes of his own sanity, and volition, nothing else.
If you keep calling him cuckoo, he will get off on "diminished responsibilities" when he is up in Strasbourg along with the rest of the filth Jersey spews out.
PACK IT IN!!!
(d) provide a full and proper audit trail of the emails concerning the finds JAR/6 and SLJ/1?
ReplyDeleteSenator Ian Le Marquand: (d) I do not understand what is meant by "audit trails of e-mails".
Let me take a guess:
audit trail = a police log of ALL emails sent and received, in full.
No it can't be that's too easy to understand. So what did ILM think it meant.
As stated above, he does not answer the question, but introduces an anomaly:-
"However, this appears {ILM guessing} to also {in addition to the audit-trail} be referring to statements {nope clean your ears out, it was EMAILS} or other evidence {other than emails? okay are you going to provide them as well after I explain what an audit trail of emails is to you?}.(End)"
{my comments}
Oh what a clown...
LOOK WHAT'S COMING!!!
ReplyDeleteKuddos! From the point of view of anyone outside Jersey, the published facts speak for themselves. We predict there will never be any truthful official answers to the questions regarding evidence, unless an outside court of law compels this.
ReplyDeleteYour island has a very wide-ranging but ridiculously inadequate government cover up in place which is being ripped to shreds by Jersey bloggers armed only with good hard evidence. Further demonstration of a cover up can be seen in the nervous official refusals to discuss ANY of your documentation in a comprehensible manner. There are certain facts which can have only one logical interpretation in this case.
This was the largest international news story to involve Jersey and the Jersey political system still can't allow honest answers to ANY questions regarding evidence obtained by its own police? That says enough to the world, really.
Steve and Marty
The bloggers filled the void left by a vacant local media
ReplyDelete"Perhaps more importantly there should be change in the media that failed to hold the powers to account. Because when the voices of the vulnerable are not heard by authority, the influence of an attentive media is perhaps their last hope. The frightened children incarcerated at Haut de la Garenne must have dreamt that they too could board that boat in the morning."
I must compliment Mr Muirhead on his summing up of Jersey as I believe he has it so right. Yhis next bit is where a thousand problems lie and why a committee of enquiry is so important to the island of Jersey
"The implicit message in the morning boat maxim is that Jersey islanders do not entertain criticism or complaint. And that is how we arrive at the unsurprising revelation that institutional child abuse was covered up for all those years."
That is so very true. Look at the questions asked of the Chief Minister on these issues and the utter rubbish he gives back. Look at what has happened to the two policeman that investigated Child Abuse it all adds up to one big stinking cover up.
rs
what a sad day for jersey rip mr collins
ReplyDeleteClifford Wilson?
ReplyDeleteDONT FORGET
ReplyDeleteRS
Emille’s Funeral will be held on Wednesday at 10.45 am at the Crematorium followed by a meeting at the Old Magistrates Court (back of Town Hall) from 1145am.Family, friends and former colleagues are welcome to attend.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason the JEP has been letting through some very intelligent online comments regarding the call for a full Inquiry. But some of the usual commenters still can't be bothered to fully research the facts, even if they do have time to post comments about how they have not read all the evidence.
ReplyDeleteFor those in Jersey, North Korea or Egypt who refuse to look further than the government run media, the perfect quote:
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." (Martin Luther King)
Our corrupt dictatorial regime will be taking very careful note of how their State controlled media and they are being exposed to the world. The power of the internet and the ordinary oppressed folk of out of control corrupt regime’s is/are changing the world.
ReplyDeleteHow long can the Jersey ruling elite and their media keep people in fear of taking to the streets, over-throwing this politicised Judicial system and dictatorship and insisting that the proper rule of law is put in place? “They” know it is only a matter of time.
A FEW OPPRESSIONS
ReplyDeleteThe latest cracking comment from "CivilSerpent" 29 June 2012 10:05AM
ReplyDeletehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/26/jersey-threatens-independence-tax-backlash?commentpage=1#start-of-comments
This comment hits the bullseye and is exactly the sort of comment that is not permitted on the JEP's thisisjersey pseudo-debating site. (paste it in and see)
I would encourage readers in agreement to click on "Recommend" on the above link so that these issues begin to get the attention they deserve.
=================
Thank you for your vitriolic response Klinefeld. Quite a typical response I might add for the oligarchy, its supporters -usually those with a vested interest in the status quo being maintained (finance industry) - and those on the payroll.
I particularly enjoyed the attempt to denigrate Mr Sorda for his lowly status in life. Can't have a working class oik digging up dirt now can we Klinefeld. Of note, Klinefeld you say:
"these blogs are mostly opinion based and seldom with facts and evidence to back their claims"
Then you admit that most of what he puts on his blog are official documents available to the public. Klinefeld, those documents (many of which would never had seen the light of day save for Mr Sorda's tenacity) are filled with "facts and evidence to back their claims". Mr Soda and Mr McMurray have unearthed more real evidence and asked more questions of the government over the last couple of years than any 'mainstream' local journalist.
As to the JEP You might find that the newspaper does not slag off the Jersey government. Only certain opposition individuals within the government or those who the establishment have fallen out of favour with. Should readers wish to see how it really works they should also read this excellent article. Although Klinefeld will probable say that the former Chief Police Officer Graham Power QPM is 'not all there' too.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/28/jersey-secrecy-culture?intcmp=239
If the Jersey media were fullfilling their role (Lord Leveson would have a field day with our lot) can you explain why BBC Jersey has been in possession of Graham Power's damning affidavit for 8 months and yet not reported a single word on the serious accusations?
Can you explain why the Sharp Report - http://www.no2abuse.com/index.php/news/comments/the-sharp-report-jersey-abuse-download/ - concerning child abuse by staff at Victoria College (the Governor of which at the time was one Sir Philip Bailhache, who now, as a sitting politician, does NOT want a committe of enquiry into decades of child abuse in Jersey) was never investigated by the JEP? As the Governor, was not Bailhache ultimately responsible for the welfare of the children at the school? I can only wonder why he doesn't want an enquiry?
The UK press would have been all over these scandals. In Jersey, it's as if they never happened.
Perhaps it has something to do with the former Chief Minister, Frank Walker, previously owning the only Jersey newspaper and still having a huge influence there. Perhaps his marriage to one of BBC Jersey's top former journalists helped to cement an influence there? Who knows...
It's called 'opinion management' Klinefeld. It helps to prevent the public from having a negative opinion of the establishment and helps to keep them in power. You are either a part of it or a sucker for it.
And if the UK readrs think that none of this is relevant to them or to tax avoidance, all the above is done to protect Jersey's finance industry. The reputation of the island is paramount. That does affect you.
Sweep the dirt under the very big carpet guys.
Re: `My only disappointment in reading this is that it is not in the wider public domain.
ReplyDeleteIf all the people of Jersey knew all this the government would collapse overnight'.
I'm sorry to dissolution you, but the average person in Jersey doesn't really want to know!
You see, by knowing, destroys many of thier middle class values securities. So it's best not to know!
I agree with the opinion that many don't want to know, however I am more confident that most will eventually know, no matter how reluctant they are. This blog is becoming the credible media source of record on all forensic findings. Now, most related evidence in the public domain is heavily referenced and linked to and from Team Voice Blogs. That means, all outside interested parties - from journalists to organisations involved in child abuse, human rights, free speech, policing matters and judicial corruption - are likely to see this before they see the JEP or hate sights for factual reference. The locals who choose not to face facts will be the last to know, but eventually, they will still know. This isn't going away.
DeleteIt is dificult finding places where it is not apropriate to put the following
ReplyDeleteOn Jerseys "historic" and not so 'historic' child protection faliures
This bears repeating; from the 2nd page of comments (#215) at
http://stuartsyvret.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/the-crown-and-newspeak-justice-part-1.html?commentPage=2
2 October 2013 15:02
"A civilised Jersey conservative" said...
Mr Syvret, the magnitude of what you have done may well be lost on most of your readers. It isn't lost on the legal profession nor intelligent observers further afield. You have, as you correctly observed, 'faced down' the Jersey courts. People never, and I mean 'never', 'face down' a court. At least, not if the society is respectable and the person not a tyrant with an army at his back. Or, of course, in the case of an ordinary person like yourself, no court confident of its respectability would be 'faced down'. Our society is not respectable. And alas our courts even less so. As some 'higher external power' has finally had the good sense to recognise, it would seem. There can be no other explanation for you not being in prison. I am, incidentally, glad that you are not, and relieved, and deeply saddened at the same time. I've savoured a certain schadenfreude when discussing the situation with other lawyers & saying 'I told you so' when reminding them of the innumerable times I said 'no good would ever come of the folly of the actions against you, and it could only end in lasting damage to the island'. So it has come to pass. It saddens me that so many colleagues have been too fearful & foolish to have moved to stop this madness (and that is not an inappropriate word)when our Crown Officers embarked on the lunacy several years ago.
.....
Not exactly evidence to help those poor children that were undoubtedly tortured, sexually abused and murdered in HDLG, But the BBC will only report on any child abuse that does not involve themselves or government//parliamentary bodies. All of which is going on in the UK right now, Institutionalized sex abuse & parliamentary paedophiles are active and have been for decades, i'm speaking as an abuse victim myself from the UK in 1959 to 1963, and have been following the Jersey abuse case from the day Mr Harper made his first statement. He's an honest cop and they are few and far between. It was suggested that he retired but he tells us that he was forced out and he wanted to see the HDLG case through to its conclusion to honour those lost souls. I think the biggest mistake ever made was the bone and dental evidence should never have been sent unescorted at any time. It was obvious to interested parties over here that once British politicians & Saville were associated with Jersey that any evidence would be interfered with once it landed on Blighty...... Sorry I'm not well versed in skeletory remains but lm sure even l couldn't mistake a partial skull for coconut. Its quite possible its coconut now because i believe l read on another blog that it went through 3 different scientific "experts" after leaving Jersey with no paper trail. I would love to see justice for these children, but somehow l don't think it will come as long as you have corruption and British Elite involved in your Islands state and financial affairs.
ReplyDeleteHi its been a long time but what is/was the "final" position on those dozens of childrens teeth? How did they get there? Wjerer were they from.
ReplyDeleteThey, along with many more children's remains, were never sent off for further testing. The then Home Affairs Minister, Ian Le Marquand, said they must have all fallen out of the childrens mouths and fell through the exact same gap in a floorboard. The then Senior Investigating Police Officer Mick Gradwell said they were left for the Tooth-Fairy.
DeleteSo that's the official line(s)
Only an imbecile would suggest either of those explanations and expect anyone with more than one brain cell to believe it.
ReplyDelete"The then Senior Investigating Police Officer Mick Gradwell said they were left for the Tooth-Fairy." A comment like that only proves that Mick Gradwell was living with the fairies, Possibly down Ian Le Marquand's "same gap in the floorboards" Theres no doubt in my mind that Lenny Harper would have discovered the truth.