VFC exclusively interviewed the party Chairman (below) and discussed, in-depth, his views on the controversial subject of religion and politics. Among the subjects discussed are, the Dean's pay, his political influence, church lobbyists, and we ask where have the teachings of Jesus gone? Is Jesus, who could be described as "a political agitator" or "anti establishment" now a part of the establishment?
In part two of the interview we discuss the role of the Island's twelve Constables, eleven of which, who have not faced an election................
Instead of coming on here to attack RJ why don't you tell us your views on the Dean in the States and how the tax payers are forced to pay for him and his religion? We need more people like Sam Mezec in there and less unelected people like the Dean.
ReplyDeleteIs Sam putting his position at risk? If the church have influence over who is deputy, as suggested at the CHOW meeting where the Dean interviewed the candidates, surely Sam will be voted out for opposing the Dean?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure the Dean is as popular as you think and it might very well help the Deputy get elected if he opposes the Dean.
DeleteThe Dean has lawyers and a Diocese who will wipe anyone out who opposes him.
DeleteSam will go the same way as Shona and Trevor and Stuart if he proceeds.
Although, I hope not,
What a load of old cobblers, Deputy Sam Mezec will get voted in or out by the will of his electorate whom also happen to be mainly Christians.
DeleteIf Deputy Mezec thinks he can trample all over the office of the Dean of Jersey with his 'Reform Jersey' Socialist clown shoes, he had better prepare himself for a rude awakening in the coming election.
If Deputy Mezec's electorate are mainly Christians, as you say, how can you be so sure they support the Dean?
Deleteanon 13:16 can I have facts and figures re the percentage of Christians in Mezec's electorate? (what a load of cobblers!)
DeleteHow can you be sure they the majority do not support the Dean? The same question is open-ended and works both ways VFC.
DeleteDo I support the office of the Dean of Jersey? Yes.
Perhaps VFC, if you took the time and trouble to find out exactly what the office of Dean does in the Island, perhaps you would too.
History has proved that Socialism does not work, Socialism is a destructive parasitic ideology which in practice has delivered nothing but misery.
My manifesto is based on social and economic justice.
DeleteMost Christians support that.
I never said the majority do not support the Dean I believe you implied that the majority do. As Deputy Mezec has said already, this is not a “socialist” view it’s a democratic one.
DeleteThen, post a balanced Blog report about the work of the Dean in the island.
DeleteWhat does the Dean of Jersey actually do?
I’ve no doubt the office of Dean does do some good work somewhere but so does the lifeboat, so does the JCLA, so does the Quakers, and so many others. Should they all have an unelected seat in the States with the ability to influence policy/decisions?
DeleteIn the way of balance I haven't published, on this Blog Posting, the harm that he has caused either.
Socratic inductive reasoning is no real answer to my question, and is definitely a most transparent way of wriggling out of answering a perfectly reasonable question.
DeleteWill you write a balanced blog posting outlining what the Dean of Jersey actually does in this island?
If you mean a “blog posting outlining what the Dean of Jersey actually does in this island” to warrant his unelected place in the Island’s parliament then I’m not sure I could.
DeleteOn the other hand if you are so keen to put this view across then I am happy to interview you should you wish?
Deputy Sam Mézec said: My manifesto is based on social and economic justice. Most Christians support that.
DeleteAnon replied: Your own so-called manifesto of "Social and economic justice" is actually based on fundamental Socialist ideology which addresses issues of exploitation of workers within a capitalistic economic system, and was first conceived by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels (1).
I don't think anything you have said so far has been based on any real ideas which have come from your own head Deputy Mézec, but phrases and concepts you have learnt to parrot from Socialist authors of a failed ideology.
Read some of Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn's writings, which may sober you up from your Socialist sleeping draught... And above all else, do not allow other people to think for you, always think for yourself!
As for most Christians supporting Socialist ideology... No, that just does not wash!
1. Marx, K., & Engels, F. (1879-1882). Gesamtausgabe, Edited by the Institut für Marxismus- Leninismus
Socialism is a totalitarian ideology which has historically persecuted Christians:
DeletePersecution of Christians in the Soviet Union
20 Million Enemies of the State Murdered!
Rarely, if ever, has a regime taken the lives of so many of its own people (1).
Citing newly-available Soviet KGB documents, historian Dmitri Volkogonov, head of a special Russian parliamentary commission, recently concluded that "from 1929 to 1952, 21.5 million [Soviet] people were repressed. Of these a third were shot, and the rest sentenced to imprisonment, where many also died"(2).
Olga Shatunovskaya, a member of the Soviet Commission of Party Control, and head of a special commission during the 1960s appointed by premier Khrushchev, has similarly concluded: "From January 1, 1935 to June 22, 1941, 19,840,000 enemies of the people were arrested. Of these, seven million were shot in prison, and a majority of the others died in camps." These figures were also found in the papers of Politburo member Anastas Mikoyan (3).
Robert Conquest, the distinguished specialist of Soviet history, recently summed up the grim record of Soviet "repression" of it own people (4):
"It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the post-1934 death toll was well over ten million. To this should be added the victims of the 1930-1933 famine, the kulak deportations, and other anti-peasant campaigns, amounting to another ten million plus. The total is thus in the range of what the Russians now refer to as 'The Twenty Million'."
A few other scholars have given significantly higher estimates (5).
1. Contrary to what a number of western historians have for years suggested, Soviet terror and the Gulag camp system did not begin with Stalin. At the end of 1920, Soviet Russia already had 84 concentration camps with approximately 50,000 prisoners. By October 1923 the number had increased to 315 camps with 70,000 inmates. R. Pipes, The Russian Revolution (1990), p. 836.
2. Cited by historian Robert Conquest in a review/ article in The New York Review of Books, Sept. 23, 1993, p. 27.
3. The New York Review of Books, Sept. 23, 1993, p. 27.
4. Review/article by Robert Conquest in The New York Review of Books, Sept. 23, 1993, p. 27.; In the "Great Terror" years of 1937-1938 alone, Conquest has calculated, approximately one million were shot by the Soviet secret police, and another two million perished in Soviet camps. R. Conquest, The Great Terror (New York: Oxford, 1990), pp. 485-486.;
Conquest has estimated that 13.5 to 14 million people perished in the collectivization ("dekulakization") campaign and forced famine of 1929-1933. R. Conquest, The Harvest of Sorrow (New York: Oxford, 1986), pp. 301-307.
5. Russian professor Igor Bestuzhev-Lada, writing in a 1988 issue of the Moscow weekly Nedelya, suggested that during the Stalin era alone (1935-1953), as many as 50 million people were killed, condemned to camps from which they never emerged, or lost their lives as a direct result of the brutal "dekulakization" campaign against the peasantry. "Soviets admit Stalin killed 50 million," The Sunday Times, London, April 17, 1988.; R. J. Rummel, a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii, has recently calculated that 61.9 million people were systematically killed by the Soviet Communist regime from 1917 to 1987. R. J. Rummel, Lethal Politics: Soviet Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1917 (Transaction, 1990).
Your turn of phrase "tax payers are forced to pay for him and his religion?", does not change the fact that the "majority of the Jersey electorate are Christian" and as such are happy to see Christianity represented in the States of Jersey by the office of the Dean.
ReplyDeleteMass immigration (such as that endured by the UK, which has been covertly socially engineered under past Labour Government's) has not yet broken the predominant Christian society of Jersey.
People call themselves Christians, who abuse power and act dishonestly, harm vulnerable people and try to prevent fair investigations into child abuse are not Christians, therefore they are happy for a non-Christian Dean to continue to represent them under the guise of Christianity.
ReplyDeleteLook at Jesus and what he did, look at what the Dean and his 'Christians' do, and how they use 'Christianity' and the church to further their aims.
@ 12:12 "majority of the Jersey electorate are Christian and as such are happy to see Christianity represented in the States of Jersey by the orifice of the Dean."
ReplyDeleteThen surely by their own free will they are prepared to by choice reach into their own pockets and donate rather than let sticky fingers into the communal till via latter day tithes.
The Jews, Catholics, Hindus and Islamics cam pay for their own religion and so can the Anglican sect.
In case you hadn't noticed Jersey has been more subject to mass immigration than the UK.
Don't forget to click on my name to air the unclean vice dean
http://freespeechoffshore.nl/stuartsyvretblog/ecclesiastical-abuse/
Why should a 'Reform Jersey' politician go out of his way to attack the office of the Dean of Jersey, especially when there are far more pressing issues at hand?
ReplyDeleteIn Deputy Mezec's own words, in which he is "much more interested in talking about issue like cost of living, zero-hour's contracts and what have you".
Deputy Mezec and the Socialist 'Reform Jersey' Party which he represents attacks the Dean of jersey in pursuit of a purely Socialist agenda to break up the established society of Jersey which has taken centuries to evolve.
Before you know it, the people of Jersey will have to suffer the likes of a UKIP style opposition party surfacing in the Island, the opposite radical party attempting to counter the "Looney left" which nearly tore the UK to pieces with its destructive social engineering by mass immigration.
Cat and dog opposition party politics will divide the States of Jersey and the people of this island and play into the hands of the looney-left determined to use any tool in which the "means justify the ends".
If you want to vote for a party which will wreck the island, go ahead and vote for REFORM JERSEY, the LABOUR PARTY in all but name.
Oh yeah the establishment party has done a great job so far hasn't it? The latest survey saying seventy five per cent people don't trust it which coincides with seventy five percent voter abstention. Voter apathy is at an all time hight with a third of the state being elected uncontested. Reform Jersey candidates will be getting my vote this time around just because I think it is impossible to do a worse job than the present bunch running the show. And I believe the Dean has no place being in the States as he is a disgrace to all religions after the way he treated the victim who was abused in the church.
ReplyDeleteThe latest Social Survey did show, of those surveyed, that 75% do not trust our government and a point I have made previously that 75% of people not voting is difficult to see as coincidence. The same survey also found that around 60% did not trust the local State Media and 50% don't trust the so-called "justice" system. With an economic deficit of around £90m over the next 3 years alongside a third of the Assembly being elected unopposed doesn't suggest that Jersey is in a very good state right now. It surely is time to reform the States and its constitution, including getting rid of the Dean, AG/SG Bailiff/Deputy Bailiff out of there as they are influential unelected and unaccountable?
ReplyDelete@ 12:50
ReplyDeleteDeary me, you have got your knickers in a twist
As previously said "In case you hadn't noticed Jersey has been more subject to mass immigration than the UK"
I'm not saying that this is not a problem, particularly where significant immigration is from 'alien cultures' .... but you sound like a ranting McCarthyite-moron stuck in a reds-under-the-jersey-bed delusion.
FACE FACTS. The UK's failure to control immigration is predominantly for the same reason as Jersey. The pressure from business for access to increased markets and controlling WAGE COSTS. So it is as much the fault of the right wing needs of business as of notions of "multiculturalism". This is especially true of Jersey which is very multicultural in spite of never having a multicultural dream or delusion.
RJ may be centre-left but many of the centre and centre-right will be happy to vote for them where they field good candidates.
To turn Anonymous' ending statement on it's head it is fair to say "If you want to vote for a party which has ALREADY wrecked the island, go ahead and vote for TEAM BAILHACHE, the PAEDOPHILE PARTY in all but name":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7351907.stm
The father of one of the abuse victims told BBC News:
"My personal opinion is that Bailhache should have resigned years ago.
The man made a fundamental mistake that led to a child being abused and he has no right to be in the job."
http://freespeechoffshore.nl/stuartsyvretblog/freedom-and-liberation/
Baillache & the infamous liberation day speech
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/8129122.stm
Former bailiff Baillache stands by speech
The untouchable who lives in a parallel universe.
And now he wants to declare UDI and immunity from prosecution?
Didn't realise John Dix was on the blogs now. Or at least some one who pedals the same Macarthyite paranoia.
ReplyDeleteI have not launched an attack against the office of the Dean. I have said I don't believe that unelected people should sit in the States.
That is a democratic view, not a socialist view. To say it's just some socialist conspiracy is insulting to all the right-wingers and Christians who also believe in democracy
In truth, you don't actually know what the Dean of Jersey does VFC, do you?
ReplyDeleteTo give him an unelected seat in the States over anybody else? No you're right I don't.
DeleteAre you saying that the RNLI, Macmillan Cancer Trust, JCLA, Quakers,Muslims, Hindus, and just about everybody else deserves an unelected seat in the states? And that you don't want to do an interview?
DeleteQuestions without answers, and no balanced reporting for our Dean then VFC?
Delete“In truth, you don't actually know what the Dean of Jersey does VFC, do you?”
DeleteTo which I ANSWERED;
“To give him an unelected seat in the States over anybody else? No you're right I don't.” That looks pretty much like an answer to me.
You now say;
“and no balanced reporting for our Dean then VFC?”
When I have already said;
“On the other hand if you are so keen to put this view across then I am happy to interview you should you wish?”
I am publishing your pro Dean comments and offered you an interview. That looks pretty much like balance to me. You have been given the opportunity to have an interview to further put your views across and have avoided the question, the very same thing you (wrongly) accuse me of.
There is no real balanced reporting when you attack the office of the Dean, and yet do not equally report anything from the perspective of the Dean... Where is the balance in that?
DeleteWhat's stopping you from asking the Dean for an interview? Have you approached the Dean? I bet you haven't...
Even if the Dean views your interview as partisan and says no, at least you can tell your readers you had tried to provide a balanced report.
I bet the Rev. Bob Key is a reasonable man if you actually give him a chance and start talking to him.
I for one am not convinced by your argument VFC, especially when you don't even know anything about the office of Dean.
You are assuming I know nothing about the office of the Dean and, at the same time, have not offered any valid reason as to why he should be sat in the States over and above anyone else. I answer your questions, and you say I haven't. I offer you an interview, which refuse, and make out because if I haven't offered the Dean an interview I'm not balanced. This is not whether Bob Key is a reasonable man or not, it's about democracy, but you don't wish to accept that.
DeleteYou don't accept VFC's argument but something tells me you never will. You've come on here to pick holes wherever you believe you can by ignoring the underlying issues of unelected members being in the States Chamber and being paid for by the taxpayer.
Did you even watch the interview? If so what is your take on how the word of Jesus sits today as to how it was when/if he was alive? Is the Dean following the footsteps/teachings of Jesus? Is the Dean anti establishment? Does the Dean speak out against the establishment? Does the Dean live in poverty? Would the establishment (metaphorically) crucify the Dean or would it sever 800 year ties to protect him?
My take is that the Dean represents the complete opposite of what Jesus did and has no place spreading that view in the Island's parliament.
Yes, I watched the video, twice in fact; but still remain unconvinced that the office of the Dean should be removed from the States Chamber.
DeleteI am even more unconvinced, when the politician calling out for the Dean's removal is from the 'Reform Jersey' party with a left-wing Socialist ideology, especially when that same politician only just scraped into office on a minority of 277 votes in a 13% turnout through the back-door of St Helier No. 2.
The voice of Deputy Mezec does not represent the majority of this island, and I for one do not agree with him or you that the Dean should go, sorry VFC.
You still won't tell me how the Dean deserves a seat in the States over and above anybody else. Deputy Mezec's votes are 277 more votes than the Dean has achieved. If Deputy Mezec had only one vote then that would give him more of a mandate/legitimacy than the Dean.
DeleteIf you did watch the video you would of heard the Deputy saying that he agreed with Jesus' views who himself, we are told, was all for social economic justice/fairness. Which kind of makes my point as you support the Dean being in there, and being a Dean supporter, you don't support what Jesus supported.
The Dean provides an important non-aligned independent voice and spiritual insight within the States Chamber, the Dean make no claims to direct representation, his office seeks to be a voice for all people of faith, not just Christians.
DeleteStop skirting around the issue, and ask the Dean for an interview VFC...
12:12 "majority of the Jersey electorate are Christian and as such are happy to see Christianity represented in the States of Jersey by the orifice of the Dean."
ReplyDeleteI would dispute that the majority of the Jersey electorate are Christian as in being Church-goers and God fearing people. It is possible for people to live by Christian values and morals without having to adhere to any religion, and the vast majority of good, thinking, intelligent people I know and speak to have actually turned away from a faith for a large number of reasons.
I agree wholly with Sam that this man should not be funded by the tax-payer to sit in the States. I am sure there are many deserving people or causes that could make good use of his salary, whilst he himself could be spending that time more usefully.
Whilst you have been diplomatic enough VFC not to get drawn into the discussion of what the Dean does, or does not do in the Island, a lot of us have long memories and could actually pin-point an instance where he clearly did nothing, when clearly he should.
As is proven time and time again religion and politics do not and should not mix.
Jill
DeleteA Freudian typo?
"the orifice of the Dean"
.... a visual image that is rather unpleasant ...yuk!
But very amusing!
Thank you Jill. You speak for me as well.
DeleteJill, what you have in the States is a tight little clique who hold church positions because they are 'dignitaries' and they have abused their power in a conflict that you mentioned was within memory.
DeleteThis also happens in the UK, local not-so-Christians holding positions in church as they are local landowners/wealthy, made to feel important and putting their generous 10% in the coffers.
Someone mentioned the House of Lords and Bishops, Jersey's little clique is a minature of that, and even in this day and age, apathy is such that it goes on .
Think back to the Pharisees, who were the same thing and did not like being challenged by Jesus, anyone challenging these modern-day pharisees gets the same treatment. And telling them they are not Christian just because they sit in state/States will get you harsh lectures about judgement and forgiveness, things they themselves forget the rest of the time, along with most of Jesus' teachings.
Here endeth the lesson.
(St. pauls reply -ayyy-Men!)
I agree completely with Sam's view here: there should be full separation of Church and State, and the Dean should not be allowed to participate in debates in the States. However, let's be honest (and I suspect you will get around to this in Part 2), the presence of the Dean is inconsequential when compared to the fact that a significant proportion of full States members (i.e. Constables and Deputies) are "elected" unopposed or by a tiny number of voters.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I include Sam himself in this category. Sam received 277 votes in a turn-out of 13%. This gives him no moral right whatsoever to lecture anybody about other States members having no right to participate in debates, when he himself was returned on such a laughably small vote.
I will give him and the other Reform Party candidates a lot more credit if they stand on an island-wide mandate rather than in the deputorial elections. The fact that they seek to bring about fundamental reform of the Island through the broken deputorial system does them as little credit as the establishment's perpetuation of the equally unacceptable system of Constables sitting in the States.
Hi VFC,
ReplyDeleteOff topic, but have you seen that @politicsjersey tweet today...?
"Home Affairs Minister says the Graham Power suspension could've been handled better, regrets the cost but says outcome would've been same"
We are talking hundreds of thousands of pounds wasted and the unblemished reputation of a great chief police officer being unfairly attacked, to cover up the misdeeds of others. It remains an absolute scandal.
Perhaps you could get Graham Power to write an open letter to Ian Le Marquand, asking him exactly how it could have been handled better? Maybe Ian Le Marquand could have chosen not to hide in the toilet when Graham Power's wife tried to serve legal papers on him? Is that how it could have been handled better, Ian, eh?
What a total disgrace!
Something tells me the disgraced Home Affairs Minister(s) haven't seem/heard the last from Graham Power yet.
DeleteExcellent news.
DeleteIn fact Graham Power QPM doesn't necessarily disagree with Ian Le Marquand in that "the outcome would've been same." Ian Le Marquand had positioned himself both as prosecutor and judge! What other outcome could there have been?
DeleteAs with some of ILM's other cases where he is conflicted, including in the church.
DeleteTaken fron the Guernsey press comments section. The debate is running in parallel with the Deans position on Jersey.
ReplyDeletehttp://guernseypress.com/news/2014/09/16/parish-right-to-sell-off-rectories-may-be-blocked/
Comments section
Tim South
September 21, 2014 11:19 pm
We have the same problem in Jersey.
As many of you may be aware history tells us that the horny king Henry the VIII had trouble being married to one woman, and the Vatican being Catholic would not allow divorce. Not a problem if you are the king of England so he basically formed his own church, the Church of England and placed himself as it’s head. Then he could and would and did as he pleased including chopping of his wife’s head or imprisoning them.
The Vatican was wealthy and the CoE was funded by the people with the King as the overall leader.
This church has been handed down from Monarch to Monarch through the centuries and now the Queen is boss the subjects fund the church as do the congregations.
It is high time that this historic feudal setup is scrapped for several reasons some of which are mentioned above. Whichever God you may worship, it is your choice, but all religion’s as in the Mormons, Catholics,’ Muslims etc should be paid for by followers. All have charity status meaning they are not obliged to pay taxes.
It is discriminatory against other religions that the tax and ratepayers fund the Queens inherited religion. Why should other religions or atheists have to dig into their pockets to support the CoE when there is no connection ?
The strongest personal objection is that religion is invited into Government in a lobbying capacity and to say prayers and be rewarded by the taxpayer is just ridiculous. I am unsure of the pay in Guernsey but the Dean Bob Key in Jersey receives £26,100 per year in addition to everything else, everything else means a very large newly painted rectory and all utility and accounts paid, plus a recent tax funded trip to Madeira representing Jersey.
This may have been the norm in Henry VIII time but it is nothing short of a scandal today. The big question is why the States members are allowing this abuse of public money.
A comment above says it is not particularly expensive to fund the CoE, I disagree. The Church of England accounts show a portfolio of property, ( the Wonga shareholding has been removed after criticism ) shares and other assets valued at £5 billion.
They can afford to fund themselves, and if they are supposed to be doing Christ’s work how is it that they are sitting on such a fortune, given the amount of starving, poor and destitute in this world ?
That’s a question States members might be asking their Dean.
Bob Hill has some interesting information on his blog.
http://bobhilljersey.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/jerseys-dean-steel-and-gladwin-reports.html
Nice bit of spin thrown into your last paragraph Deputy Mezec, and even more richer considering you entered politics through a broken Deputorial system on a minority of 277 votes in a 13% turnout through the back-door of St Helier No. 2. Somehow I do not think you would fair so well in Senatorial island-wide elections.
ReplyDeleteIn the UK, the electorate have no problem with the similar office of 'The Lords Spiritual', in which Bishops sit within one of the worlds oldest democracies (the house of Lords).
The Dean provides an important non-aligned independent voice and spiritual insight within the States Chamber, the Dean make no claims to direct representation, his office seeks to be a voice for all people of faith, not just Christians.
so why do you have a problem with the Dean sitting in the States Chamber?
I am happy to vote at any time to abolish the system that allowed me to get elected on such a small number of votes. I am not a hypocrite on this.
ReplyDeleteAs for the House of Lords in the UK, you're completely wrong. The vast majority of the population want to see an elected upper chamber, but, as with Jersey, the political class can't get over their self interest to achieve it.
I am against the House of Lords and am against unelected members in Jersey.
Interestingly enough, Senator Philip Ozouf has told me on several occasions that he supports a complete separation of Church and state. Is he part of the socialist conspiracy too?
The Dean does know Gerry Padden, of course, Gerry attends St. Ouen's church and was close to the Dean's friend, Reverend John Harkin, who suddenly left the island.
ReplyDeleteI am interested to note, on the subject of elections and the Dean influencing the States assembly, didn't John Harkin get into trouble for allegedly influencing voters? Was it the Dean who got him out of trouble?
The Dean was allowed to ask deputy candidates why a 'bunch of Christians should vote for them' wasn't he?
Who's this person who owns the Dean?
ReplyDelete'Our Dean' ?
Jesus ..... a Communist or a Nazi?
ReplyDeleteWell there is a little bit for everybody in the "good book" (inc. current editions) but on balance Jesus cannot be accurately described as either Communist or a Nazi.
Of the two, the bible describes him as far closer to a Communist who was tortured to death by occupying and occupied Nazi regimes. I think it fair to describe him as a deep pink socialist, at the very least.
After a few decades Christianity was adopted by the (Nazi) regime of Rome and spread thought the empire and a millennia later across much of the world by conquistadors and missionaries and regularly enforced with an iron hand and a sharp blade.
In more recent times there have been wholesale theft of children from tribal communities so that their children can be "saved", and all too regularly abused and serial raped. Even in [civilised' countries like Canada!!!
So the Jersey Dean is hardly anything new. Just the local incarnation of the theo-political animal coming in political shades from deep blue to black.
The christian message is lost to a PR soundbite as cover for the most unchristian behaviours.
If there is a god, perhaps this is her way of trapping the morally and intellectually weak and the easily led?
Well, isn't life a bitch? LOL
I am a right leaning liberal but socialism is nothing to be ashamed of. "Socialism" gives us things such as universal education (yes, even for poor children), Pensions for old people (yes, including those who made little or no SS contributions; which came into existence later) And medical treatment for ill people like Kristina Moore (or did she go 100% private .....within a "socialist" funded hospital)
So people like the persistent commenter on this thread who seek to use the word "socialist" (or even liberal?) as an insult, are either ........
.....rather stupid
or
.....rather fascist
This is shocking, but not uncommon as some of the extremes of conservatism, religious-conservatism and neo-conservatism are well into fascist territory.
If the point of this comment is to make you look clever, you failed...
DeleteI am sure he is brokenhearted at that response.
Delete"If the point of this comment is to make you look clever, you failed..."
DeleteNo, one point of that comment was to educate you ... and perhaps a few other readers who are conditioned into unquestioningly swallowing Jersey establishment misinformation.
Perhaps in your case (and any who are 'resistant to education') this was an unrealistic hope and I apologise. An effort domed to failure.
The main point (& in support of the video) is that The New Testament/ Christian message is largely a socialist one if one is going to attempt to analyse a religion along Left-Right/Party-Political lines.
The first poster "Anonymous 10:48" on this seems hyper focused on this left-right/socialist issue and perhaps tellingly plays the xenophobic scare card (perhaps racist even?)
"Anonymous" continues to shoot himself in the other foot by branding Sam/RJ as the "Looney left"
I have never seen the "Looney left"look so sensible. We surely have more of a problem with the "Rabid Right" in Jersey. In some cases the extreme right ;-)
As I and the video point out it is rather bizarre that the Christian (predominately socialist) message has been hijacked and even turned upon it's head in Jersey by "the Orifice of the Dean" and it's closely aligned Jersey Establishment.
Is anyone who too closely follows this leadership inadvertently stumbling into damnation rather than the resurrection they so desperately seek?
The intervention of the Jersey establishment has apparently "exonerated" Dean Bob Key
Does this mean that Bob Key has WITHDRAWN HIS APOLOGY for his safeguarding failures and his subsequent mishandling ?????
If so Bob Key has shown himself to be rather lacking in moral backbone to have let himself be bullied into making said apology in the first place?
Of course Bob Key would avoid an interview with VFC because BALANCE would require him to answer these difficult questions and many others !
Dean Bob Key has only been pronounced "exonerated" inside the ultra-insular Jersey bubble. The ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY'S apology still stands.
They don't grow on trees you know, and Team Bailhache again shafts Jersey internationally.
What were you saying about the [back] office of your dean?
Shine a light on that if you dare.......
yes, if I comprehend you, if it ever comes to light...
Delete"The intervention of the Jersey establishment has apparently "exonerated" Dean Bob Key"
DeleteAnd
"Dean Bob Key has only been pronounced "exonerated" inside the ultra-insular Jersey bubble."
The State Media can always be relied upon to broadcast the establishment's propaganda, and in particular, ITV/CTV who "exonerated" the disgraced Dean contrary to the English language and dictionary.
As reported HERE.
Vote for Ozouf
ReplyDeleteTo Summarize, the Dean is well off, is he using his seat in the States to address the injustices and imbalances in the island?
ReplyDelete"No, one point of that comment was to educate you ... and perhaps a few other readers who are conditioned into unquestioningly swallowing Jersey establishment misinformation. Perhaps in your case (and any who are 'resistant to education') this was an unrealistic hope and I apologise. An effort domed to failure."
ReplyDeleteOr alternatively perhaps the rest of us are not your intellectual inferiors, are perfectly able to form our own opinions, and don't need "educating" with childish essays on Christian theology and politics. And just because somebody thinks what you write is patronising rubbish doesn't make them pro-establishment. But thanks for the apology - gladly accepted.
sounds like you don't need to go to church any more, I have heard some patronizing childlish essays from pulpits of Jersey churches.
DeleteAnon at 18:22 may not be an intellectual inferior, but they are definitely morally inferior
DeleteThe Dean generously supports every charity in the island at their Christmas Dinners. Be kind ;)
ReplyDeleteNot seen him anywhere near the JCLA! Oh - that is a different matter of course.
DeleteYou don't invite him to the Christmas meal? Shame on you! Poor man!
DeleteCould Graham Power not action Ian Le Marquand, Deputy Lewis et at for misconduct in public office???
ReplyDeleteProbably could but what do you reckon his chance of success would be in the Jersey (politicised) "justice" system?
DeleteReaders who are resistant to education concerning Jersey's "justice" system should not look at THIS either.
DeleteOr THIS LOT.
DeleteHow dare you insult 'our Dean' by calling him 'plump' do you know how much work he has put into that rounded and jolly look? ;) he really suffers when his wife is out of the island and he has to go calling on members of his Deanery for supper!
DeleteThe Jersey Anglican church by the way, is being kept alive by the four-church cult sect that attracts young people.
Not that I would slur any particular church such as St. Pauls.
aye-Men?
You know you will spark a publicity campaign highlighting the Dean and his church doing good? One way of getting good out of the church, well done.
ReplyDeleteWhy are so many knickers in so many twists?
ReplyDeleteThe Dean of Jersey attends the States Assembly in his role as the island's leading figure in the established church (C of E.) His role is to lead the prayers which ask for God's guidance at the start of each assembly and to offer a moral/Christian perspective on issues which require the same. He is in no way as powerful as the Lords Spiritual (the bishops) in the UK House of Lords because of one simple fact. HE DOESN'T HAVE A VOTE!
And that is what's important. Those with a vote are the ones who decide the policies of the States. Of course, the super-conspiracy-theorists will immediately say that his voice and views are a major part of the crypto-feudal mechanism which seeks to run Jersey for its own ends. Which, in the final analysis translates as the "politics of envy."
Strange, isn't it, how the rich and/or powerful are only ever derided and condemned by those who are neither (but who wish they were.)
This guy isn't listening to any comments, just wants his view pushed in, must be a church member.
Deleteanon 23:26, please read the comments and stop obsessing about knickers, unless you are a certain churchwarden who was known to discuss knickers rather a lot.
The Dean's 'Christianity' is doubtful because of his behaviour, and he has been able to make speeches that could influence votes, when it hasn't been his place to and when his speeches have been biased and inappropriate.
I would like to know what comments you are referring to 'knickers in twists' because you are being a bit low, crass and insulting really, you appear to be referring to a whole board of 70 or more comments, you should be specific and reply to specific comments, especially where you are making conspiracy theory comments.
You make yourself sound like a desperate church member (and St. Pauls said ayy-menn)
None of my comments are about deriding people because I want to be rich. Nor are Jill's, nor are most of the comments, this is a discussion about the Dean influencing the States when he is unelected, and you look a bit silly and a bit desparate, especially trying to insult quite a number of people who are having a discussion.
I suggest you seek some spiritual guidance, maybe from the Dean, because if he is a true Christian, he wont support your rant, so print it off and take it to him.
I surmise from your judgmental and patronizing and inaccurate views that you are a churchgoer, supporting 'our Dean', I also surmise you go to our church but we sit in different positions. Come and see me after church.
DeletePlease explain to the people why you are falsely accusing them before I see you.
You can't exactly wipe out a whole load of views with a silly comment about knickers being in a twist.
Or accuse a lot of people with valid and varied views of condemning the rich or powerful.
You look very childish and bitter. Please stop getting you knickers in a twist about people discussing a valid topic.
Him not having a vote is not really the point; the point is why the church should be involved in any way in the business of the States Assembly, which should be an entirely secular body. Why should prayers be held within the States Chamber? As an atheist, I actually find it rather offensive that in the 21st century our legislature still communes with a vengeful but thankfully invisible sky-fairy. I also find it quite incredible that you can conflate morality with Christianity, given the two millennia of history of the Christian church being any but moral, and ignoring the humanist tradition.
DeleteIt is really of the greatest irony (Deputy Le Cornu will know of this subject) that the C of E was founded on the lustful and adulterous behavior of Henry VIII so what basis has the Dean claim to give 'spiritual guidance', I was baptized and confirmed C of E and I lost faith in what purports to be 'the faith' here in this Island long ago after the depths to which so called Christians have sunk.
DeleteInteresting that you should lean upon the views of Senator Philip Ozouf in order to give your own argument an air of assumed validity Deputy Mezec.
ReplyDeleteEven more interesting, considering that Senator Philip Ozouf is the first Treasury Minister in this islands history to plunge the the States of Jersey in debt to the tune of £95 million.
Senator Ozouf has single-handedly managed to gut the finances of this island and plunge the population of Jersey into debt!
I feel so much better knowing that the political failure that is Senator Philip Ozouf also supports complete separation of church and state!
If Senator Philip Ozouf supports a complete separation of Church and state as you say Deputy Mezec, then I for one will not be voting for him!
ReplyDelete'Strange, isn't it, how the rich and/or powerful are only ever derided and condemned by those who are neither (but who wish they were.)'
ReplyDeleteWhat a very shallow comment Anonymous Dean supporter. I would imagine that there is little that brings happiness to the 'rich and powerful' that does not do the same for us mere peasants. Money and power do not equate with peace of mind, probably the opposite. A contented life, good friends and an appreciation of simple things such as the beauty of nature all of which do not cost one single penny. I have no envy whatsoever of the rich and powerful thank you.
Furthermore - no the Dean does not have a vote, but he does appear to have influence even though he is unelected. So, you maintain he is there to pray to his God to give guidance to the assembly. If I may say so it should be the case that every member, whether Christian or not should be capable of making their own moral decisions, else they should not be there.
It was only last week that the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, stated that he often doubted there was a God which was quite a statement from the head of the CoE. On that premise the Dean is wasting his time and our money when as I said previously, both could be better utilised.
Thank you Jill, you speak for me.
DeleteJustin Welby should have considered the impact of his words on his flock.
The question is, have the social and poverty problems in Jersey diminished while the Dean has been in office? How is he helping to combat them either in the States or his ministry? (noting that you wont see one poor person in the town church, the only one we saw there was deported on behalf of the Dean)
So, are conditions becoming more equal as a result of the Dean? Are the poor and vulnerable being heard?
If the Dean really does influence votes in the States then it's up to the electorate to work out who was so easily swayed - and not vote for them next time, just like for any other unwelcome voting performances.
ReplyDeleteWhat an interesting thread in the run-up to an election.
ReplyDeleteQuick off the mark is a (cack handed) right leaning would be spin doctor who literally falls over himself trying to stick the jackboot in. A predictable attempt at brain dead smear and the lowest race-based scare tactic, but devoid of fact or intellectual rigor.
His specific "needle in a haystack" barkleygraph link
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html
may indeed have some truth in it relevant to the mainland. However his reds-under-the-bed mindset fails to appreciate that UK immigration is a cross party issue with the Tories and the short term needs of business being responsible for a good half of the problem.
So what of the local context?
Is young Mr. Mesec responsible for Jersey's massive population increase?
Hmmmmm .....unlikely unless those 'biblical' locks have enabled him to be unusually sexually active! Indeed the biblical vigour of Sampson ........and no cause to "fake it" m' love. :-)
Is the Left or Centre responsible for Jersey's massive population increase?
Nope!
Presumably NOBODY is responsible, because it surely can't be laid at the door of Jersey's ruling Right and Far-Right who were at the tiller over the years in question?
Guess what Sherlock ....businessmen (and their wives) primarily look after their own interests, and this is where right wing business rule has 'gotten us'!
This is not corruption; it is just the corruption of life.
Can we be more specific in apportioning the blame? ......Perhaps we can.
Much of this growth is "historic" but we can look back over the last decade and finger the main culprits
As it happens I read an interesting blog touching on this very subject and on the £95 million deficit which will now require increases in taxes AND/OR eye watering cuts in "socialist" services such as health and education.
Not being a political animal I did not take much notice at the time but this blog was an eye opener:
http://freespeechoffshore.nl/stuartsyvretblog/jerseys-public-finances-2004-2014-and-philip-ozouf/
The In the 2004 proposition the writer freely admits that he considers himself under informed on taxation matters. However, he is clearly not an idiot ...........unlike the bunch of 'Right thinking' fools who rejected his proposition for further (and open) investigation and discussion of options and instead swallowed Mr.Ozouf's "0/10" hijack of the island's taxation system.
Good for big business, bad for small business, and bad for middle Jersey. Hidden within the Ozoufian spin were utter lies and misrepresentations and also the slyly made admission that the resulting taxation black hole could only be filled by [population] growth.
This population growth is only ever a temporary fix and ultimately only leaves us further up sh#t creek without the proverbial paddle.
But what the heck? Ozouf and his friends own the creek and can bleed it dry.
Tax free BTW ;-)
Unless we make the labour market work for the Island, the prospect of a growing population under the 0%/10% regime will produce even less lasting economic security for the community than it has done to date. If simply growing the customer and labour base available to local businesses was the path to economic security, why hasn’t it worked so far? After 4 decades of this policy?
DeleteEND
As Dean Key has proven himself such an embarrassing waste of space, I wonder if Ex "Father of the House" Syvret might consider a non voting position as moral (and practical) guide to the States Chamber?
ReplyDeleteA non-denominational prayer at the start of each sitting could start "Sweet Jesus, please don't let them screw up [again] ........"
Stuart to be Dean of Jersey. That will get some flesh on his bones.
ReplyDeleteJersey is dangerously overcrowded, and I am horrified to see that the City of London do rule Jersey to suit themselves, it wasn't a myth.
Soon you won't see a blade of grass left in Jersey and too many people don't care.
Voice, you have got a lot of response to the Dean Posting, on both sides.
The City of London Corporation has already inserted men into key political positions to ensure that it is business as usual.
DeleteTake the Chief Minister, Senator Ian Gorst for instance. Apart from a few generalities, does anyone know anything tangible about the past of Ian Gorst, especially his working and political life in the U.K. before coming to the island?
Ian Gorst the man of mystery...
In fact... I challenge any reader here to produce any real facts about the working and political past of Senator Ian Gorst in the UK prior to coming to Jersey!
DeleteHe used to be a woman
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean used to be?????
DeleteGorst is a bit vacuous
ReplyDeletebut at least the puppet is not crazy like Bailhache
It appears that Team Bailhache "updated" the Jersey Cannons Law in order to give Dean Bob Key retrospective protection for his failures.
ReplyDeleteusing public money of course
Also Bob Key must have cost the C of E well over a £ million.
.....reports, lawyers, visitations etc.
That £1m should have been spent on protecting the abuse victim instead of protecting the Dean.
DeleteIan Gorst - a member of the NSPCC??!!
ReplyDeleteQuelle surprise! Is he not also a 'high up' member of the happy-clappy Freedom Church that embraced a convicted female paedophile and allowed her to try and encourage children in the Town Park with goodies to get involved with the said Church? The same Church that did not respond to phone calls in regard to concerns over this very matter.
Double standards methinks, and yet another example of God-fearing hypocrisy.
Funny how church members are so often linked with abuse being allowed, overlooked or ignored.
DeleteIan LeMarquand let a paedophile off one time and spoke about it publicly as if it was acceptable.
Le Marquand did not personally suspend the island's anti-paedophile police chief, but he DID personally & unjustifiably maintain it AND added additional suspensions, because the dark side needed G.Power to remain suspended until retirement
DeleteNo doubt Le Marquand finds ways of rationalising his actions but it is difficult to see how he will avoid going to hell
Le Marquand can relax
DeleteThe new testament is pretty much silent on paedophilia and the old testament condones it in a number of places so Le Marquand, Bailhache and the Dean etc. will see their actions or inaction as being on firm theological grounds.
Besides it does look like a load of guff made up by the ignorant and crazy
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0886D8914D5FA08F
WARNING: This video contains images of extreme brutality and perversion. Children should be protected from this material AND the religions based on it.
But the church likes to trap them young and warp human morality.
Justin Welby admits: child abuse has been ‘rampant’ within CoE.
ReplyDeleteArchbishop of Canterbury describes church’s ‘failure to face misdeeds’ as ‘inexcusable’.
Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby admits in a private letter that child abuse has been “rampant” in the Church of England and other UK institutions.
Source: Exaro News - Saturday 25th October 2014