Tom Gruchy
On 28 September 1769 some reported 300-400 Jersey Islanders, headed up by an extremely brave man, Tom Gruchy, overthrew the corrupt Royal Court while, then in session, to demand substantial reform of the systems of justice, government and administration. We use the word "brave" because Mr. Gruchy, and his fellow protestors, risked being hung for their actions/protest. Hanged by order of the Royal Court and their properties confiscated. The properties of all those involved could have been awarded to the likes of the Lempriere family.
The Royal Court, made up of chosen/unaccountable judges/Rectors led by the Lempriere family were the Jersey government.
Tom Gruchy and a number of his fellow protestors were subsequently arrested and threatened with execution for sedition. For the sake of brevity, for this posting, the UK utilised its constitutional obligation, stepped in to restore good governance and the rule of law in Jersey. A pardon was granted by the King for Tom Gruchy and his fellow protestors. Out of this protest came the 1771 code of laws for Jersey which is still referred to today.
On 20th November 2012 the Island's government agreed to have "Jersey Reform Day" (28 Sept 1769) officially recognised. The proposition was tabled by the then Deputy Trevor Pitman. This proposition has an extensive account of the events of 1769 which can, and should, be read HERE. Unfortunately the government has not honoured its commitment to celebrate this historic event and appears to have buried this uncomfortable part of Jersey's history. (sound FAMILIAR)?
Despite these radical reforms in 1771 has anything changed and are we in the exact same place in 2017 as we were in 1769/1771? Who runs this Island? Is it a corrupt Royal Court as in 1769? The Bailiff as in 1769? The Attorney General/Solicitor General/Crown Officers as in 1769?
To acknowledge (since the government won't) this momentous historic day, VFC interviewed (below) local historian, Human Rights Campaigner, and Constitutional Expert Mike Dun. Mike's own BLOG is dedicated to Tom Gruchy and his cause.
Reform now, as back then, is very much on the agenda not least attempting to separate the Judiciary from the legislator by relieving the Bailiff from his duty of presiding over the Island's Parliament. This latest part of much needed reform has come by way of a proposition tabled by Chief Minister Senator Ian Gorst.
Million's of £'s have been spent on at least 3 reports (Clothier/Carswell/COI) which have ALL recommended the separation of powers. Yet the Bailiff/Deputy Bailiff STILL remain head of Judiciary and Legislator. He remains unelected and unaccountable yet presides over elected/accountable public representatives. He decides what questions can be asked (or not) in the Parliament. He decides what propositions/amendments can (or not) be debated in the Parliament. He (as judge) can decide which political dissidents can be locked up, or financially ruined. He can shut down political commentators/Citizen Journalists through his court just as was the case in 1769 and referred to in the below interview. He is able to do, whatever he does, with complete impunity, answerable to nobody.
Isn't this why Tom Gruchy, and his fellow protesters, stormed the Royal Court back in 1769?
Mr. Dun appears, in the video, as an 18th century Acting Bailiff. Could it/he be a 21st century Bailiff?
Tom Gruchy and a number of his fellow protestors were subsequently arrested and threatened with execution for sedition. For the sake of brevity, for this posting, the UK utilised its constitutional obligation, stepped in to restore good governance and the rule of law in Jersey. A pardon was granted by the King for Tom Gruchy and his fellow protestors. Out of this protest came the 1771 code of laws for Jersey which is still referred to today.
Former Deputy Trevor Ptman
On 20th November 2012 the Island's government agreed to have "Jersey Reform Day" (28 Sept 1769) officially recognised. The proposition was tabled by the then Deputy Trevor Pitman. This proposition has an extensive account of the events of 1769 which can, and should, be read HERE. Unfortunately the government has not honoured its commitment to celebrate this historic event and appears to have buried this uncomfortable part of Jersey's history. (sound FAMILIAR)?
Despite these radical reforms in 1771 has anything changed and are we in the exact same place in 2017 as we were in 1769/1771? Who runs this Island? Is it a corrupt Royal Court as in 1769? The Bailiff as in 1769? The Attorney General/Solicitor General/Crown Officers as in 1769?
To acknowledge (since the government won't) this momentous historic day, VFC interviewed (below) local historian, Human Rights Campaigner, and Constitutional Expert Mike Dun. Mike's own BLOG is dedicated to Tom Gruchy and his cause.
Chief Minister Ian Gorst
Reform now, as back then, is very much on the agenda not least attempting to separate the Judiciary from the legislator by relieving the Bailiff from his duty of presiding over the Island's Parliament. This latest part of much needed reform has come by way of a proposition tabled by Chief Minister Senator Ian Gorst.
Million's of £'s have been spent on at least 3 reports (Clothier/Carswell/COI) which have ALL recommended the separation of powers. Yet the Bailiff/Deputy Bailiff STILL remain head of Judiciary and Legislator. He remains unelected and unaccountable yet presides over elected/accountable public representatives. He decides what questions can be asked (or not) in the Parliament. He decides what propositions/amendments can (or not) be debated in the Parliament. He (as judge) can decide which political dissidents can be locked up, or financially ruined. He can shut down political commentators/Citizen Journalists through his court just as was the case in 1769 and referred to in the below interview. He is able to do, whatever he does, with complete impunity, answerable to nobody.
Isn't this why Tom Gruchy, and his fellow protesters, stormed the Royal Court back in 1769?
Mr. Dun appears, in the video, as an 18th century Acting Bailiff. Could it/he be a 21st century Bailiff?
Fabulous and informative interview VFC
ReplyDeleteYou must also be congratulated on your previous posting
http://voiceforchildren.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/former-police-chief-statement-to.html
which got over 415 comments
(probably closer to 600 comments if you include the inevitable "Digger Barnes"/JSH comments which were too puerile to waste reader's time with.
The post itself was very long but a goldmine of information for anyone who has the time over the coming days and weeks
Those wishing to read the full comments thread must click on the text at the bottom saying "Load more..." *before* they start to read because the blogger site has difficulties showing the comments without omission on such a successful blog. Up to 200 comments the site works fine.
Is there anything in the settings which could get over this problem, does anyone know?
For those who do not have time to read the Chief Police Officer's interim statement
Delete(and they should BTW)
there is a brief paragraph by him which concisely defined what a criminal waste of money the "Wiltshire Investigation" cover story was:
http://photopol.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/power-points.html#moore
Moore was an "absentee investigator" if there ever was one. He never met with me and he even planned to have the disciplinary interviews conducted by subordinates. He did not get the basics right at the beginning. He accepted terms of reference which invited him to assess my conduct against the rules which apply in England and Wales (which were incorrectly described as the "UK"). At an early stage I pointed out that these rules did not even apply to Scotland, let alone Jersey, and that I had a clear political mandate to disregard any UK guidelines which were not consistent with local practice. I also drew attention to the fact that the political mandate not to apply UK guidelines in Jersey had been re-enforced by the advice of the Attorney General of the time (now the Deputy Bailiff William Bailhache) [now the Bailiff] who would be called as a defence witness should the matter ever come to a hearing. But Moore carried on regardless without ever resolving that contradiction. In the end he could only do his report and ask an English Lawyer what disciplinary offences would apply to an English Chief operating under English rules. He then said that it was up to the Jersey authorities to decide whether to apply the same reasoning locally. This was an awkward problem for the Jersey Authorities. If they decided that English Guidelines did not apply in Jersey then the whole case collapsed. However, if they decided that English guidelines did apply then those guidelines would [correctly?] then become the "bible" for policing the Island and 800 years of policing tradition would go out of the window. This dilemma presented quite a problem. In the end Ministers dealt with this in the time honored way. They put off making a decision until it was too late anyway. That is after all "the Jersey Way". What a waste. An enquiry built on sand. No matter how much work is done, if the foundations are not sound then the whole thing falls over. Having accepted wide ranging terms of reference Moore compounded his error by authorizing "fishing expeditions" which involved trawling through every email I had sent and every document I had created. Interviews were conducted with people I worked with 20 years ago, asking them to remember something, anything, that could stick. By any standard this was foolish, wasteful, but also contemptible. A more professional approach would have involved a tight "ring fenced" enquiry focusing on specific relevant issues and bound by clear timescales and budgets. This was never done, and in consequence the investigation took on a life of its own, perpetuating one line of enquiry after another until the original purpose became lost in the mass of data. He also failed to get a grip of the timescales and the spending behavior of his own staff whose apparent determination to leave no expense unclaimed provided a welcome boost to the local hotel and hospitality industry, but did nothing for law enforcement. Perhaps he could not believe his luck that so much Jersey money was being siphoned off into his Force accounts. In all probability he will have made good use of it for the benefit of the citizens of Wiltshire. The benefit to the citizens of Jersey is less apparent. I expect that he will have his excuses but the result speaks for itself. ......(continues)
With intractable problems like the Jersey Way this history shows that the only way change happens within a person's lifetime is by a good few brave people on the streets demanding democratic progress.
ReplyDeleteThis was not a communist revolution. it was a revolution of primarily the middle classes and those who had had enough of being abused.
Did a lot of good stuff that Pitman did he not. Both of them did. Which is why the Judiciary, the Establishment States Members and our current lightweight anti-establishment politicians do not want them back. Far easier to play politics, pick up £50.000 a year and strut around being someone.
ReplyDeleteThat's not being fair to
DeleteHiggins
Tadier
and possibly a handful of others
'Tis amazing how much the Pitbulls did and took on you are quite right. These days most States sittings are done and dusted in half a day of head nodding. Also noticed your comment counter does not seem to be updating. Still showing just two.
ReplyDeleteStorming the Royal Court and/or States would be ideal. What will stop people is losing their jobs. Ironically like the Reform Day proposer. A petition about the Royal Court's corruption quoting a few examples might be more achievable.
ReplyDeleteA few EXAMPLES.
DeleteAnother, well explained, EXAMPLE.
DeleteThis too is well worth a VIEW.
DeleteWhat about that compilation you did with some shafted ordinary people?
DeleteSorry just worked out it is hidden away behind Mr Bean. His face put me off!
DeleteYour comment in this video is wrong. Montfort Tadier did not start this. Shona Pitman did.
ReplyDeleteSorry I am going to be a party pooper.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the Point of a Reform Day to the man on the street?
It does not solve immigration, housing, inflation, taxation or issues with education.
I don't get it.
I'm sorry you are a pooper too.
DeleteReform Day ...... and from it continuing reform helps solve Jersey problems such as child abuse and corruption which are amongst the ultimate consequences of leaving an unfit and conflicted sustem unreformed.
Glad to have helped you out :-)
Hope to God we get some people standing next May who will put as much time into issues of today.
ReplyDelete"issues of today" like solving Jersey's problems of child abuse and corruption which are amongst the ultimate consequences of leaving an unfit and conflicted system unreformed.
DeleteYes you are right :-)
Well I have 3 children and I would be interested to know how many you have because I cannot connect with your salacious views.
DeleteI have no idea why child abuse is "salacious" to you or why you bring the matter up.
DeleteA Freudian slip perhaps?
The number of children I have is really none of your business but I can provide an answer if it is that important to you.
Same issues as 1769 by and large, Even if the tax dodgers were then the Bailiffs and Jurats.
ReplyDeleteMike Dun has carried out some really good work over the years. Shame he wasn't elected in the by-election.
ReplyDeleteRef Reform Day.
ReplyDeleteDidn't the Constable of Trinity promise Deputy Pitman that he would ensure the unmarked grave of Thomas Gruchy would be traced and marked? Maybe Mike D can tell us if it has been?
Didn't the ESC Minister also promise that children being taught about 1769 28th September would subsequently be put on the curriculum?
Refom Day and 1769's events are more relevant today than ever. Shame it seems none of our elected politicians are bright enough to see that. Perhaps we can fly the flag once the Bayleaf is ousted?
ReplyDeleteDep Pitman also wanted £3000 toward a memorial that others were going to contribute toward. And a few hundred toward investigating what was scribbled out by the Privy Council at the Bailiff's request. The huge sum of tax payers money at the heart of THE MAN IN HIS 40S scandal would have paid for both. Many times over.
ReplyDeleteSorry for not knowing but which of Jersey's scandals was the "THE MAN IN HIS 40S scandal"?
DeleteIts in the news now. A States credit card story I believe. Might all come to nothing. Jersey being the judicial cesspit it is.
DeleteYou would think a political prty calling itself Reform Jersey and claiming the need to reform as its central plank might have the gumption to promote awareness of this. That they don't speaks volumes.
ReplyDeleteFancy giving that another go?
DeleteExplain please.
DeleteYou need to update your photo Deputy. Your new haircut is far more dashing and it suits you.
DeleteWe have been promoting Reform Day. We've been asking questions in the States for a long time, including this week, and it's all over our social media accounts.
DeleteTo the anonymous at 09:32 - good point! Will sort that out soon. Thank you.
Just tweeting about this doesn't help much. Need some kind of event if that is even allowed by our Lord Bailhache?
DeleteThanks. That is good news. Can you repeat those questions here please?
DeleteWhat about a re-inacting the march next year from Trinity? You could get Mike Dun who seems to have kept this all alive to dress up as Tom Gruchy? Perhaps you could even persuade Trevor Pitman to get involved with the promise of a few flaming torches?
DeleteThe irony with that is you will probably need the Bayleaf's permission.
DeleteIt says a lot about us as a modern society that while in 1769 people stood up and risked their lives facing possible execution none of us today will left a finger even with a brave leader or three. The likes of Syvret and the Pitmans must wish they were born two and a half centuries ago when people weren't sheep.
ReplyDeleteI was taught nothing at school about this clearly important event in Jersey's history. We were taught about the great tadition of Jersey's Bailiffs though. What does that say?
ReplyDeleteComment 08.57. That was meant to say tradition darling. Trying to eat my breakfast and type at the same time. Women aye?
DeleteJersey to be hit by tail end of two hurricanes. Hopefully one of them might blow the States Chamber and Royal Court away.
ReplyDeleteThis is very interesting stuff. If Mike Dun is reading this possibly he can tell us how difficult was it to get a politician to bring this forward?
ReplyDeleteAlso does he have any idea about what will have been scribbled out by the Bailiff's stooges?
Lastly, did he agree with the bit about there deserving to be a memorial of some kind to commemorate the event?
I have always found the golden Emporor Nero statue in the Royal Square hideous. What type of memorial would he like? Do we even know what Tom Gruchy looked like?
We recognise the Battle of Jersey which historical research shows us was really little more than a tavern brawl with guns over in about 15 minutes. I am fairly certain the now celebrated Major Pierson wasn't even a Jerseyman. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. This 28th September 1769 event appears far more important.
Delete"Do we even know what Tom Gruchy looked like?"
DeleteIf I remember correctly from Mike Dun' blog; the very top picture VFC has put on this page at the very top is the only surviving likeness of Tom Gruchy.
One could not describe his handsomeness as being errrr.... 'skin deep' - hidden much deeper than that LOL!
I think that his features could be best described as 'interesting' in a warts and all sort of way.
Does Mike have any information how accurate this likeness was?
Was the source of the "cartoon" was the JEPaedo's great great grandfather, ridiculing an actually dashing blade?
Or is that what tom looked like after Jersey's Bayliff had had him beaten with the ugly stick.
Tom Gruchy definitely deserves a statue .........but I can't help thinking that tourism would benefit more from a statue of Jersey's own 'Harry Potter' in his younger days :-)
A statue of Jersey's own Harry Potter. YES. He's such a turn on in a nerdy sort of way.
DeleteWhat use are Reform Jersey when they promoted Andrew Lewis's lost reform of the States?
ReplyDeleteOnly stating a fact.
That was a mistake
Delete*hopefully* and don't argue the toss
We all get judged by the company we keep.
There are some people you should avoid associating with in any way
e.g. J.Goebbels, A.Lewis etc. etc.
Sorry for omission - should read
Delete*hopefully* they now realise this and don't argue the toss
E.g. J Gorbbels, A Lewis and Chris Taylor etc
DeleteI've yet to hear a single decent argument as to why it was a mistake.
DeleteIt was a decent proposition and we'd be looking forward to a much better election system next year if it had succeeded. Instead we'll be stuck with the same broken system for another four years.
Mike Dun would make a good States Speaker. A very fair and principled man.
ReplyDeleteWhy not have Andrew Lewis as speaker? He could remind members that they should not lie.
DeleteHaving a Speaker elected from within the Membership isn't good. It will mean that person cannot bring propositions or ask questions. So becoming a waste of space to those who elected him or her. I suppose a Constable could do it? Most say and do nothing anyway.
Delete"I suppose a Constable could do it?"
DeleteThat has to be a joke too!
Why not have Andrew Lewis as speaker? He could remind members that they should not lie.
ReplyDeleteThanks for that, you really made me laugh.
The sad truth though is that Lewis is still strutting around and not in prison for perjury is a walking reminder that it is fine for states members to Lie to the states and even to a semi judicial CoI.
In a jurisdiction with any will to fight corruption, conspiracy and child abuse Lewis would be on a charge of Misconduct in a Public Office.
If people need cheering up they should buy Gary Numan's great new No 2 album Songs from a broken world. Apparently its about Jersey where he once used to live.
ReplyDeleteBreaking news in the Filthy rag!
ReplyDeleteBaby snake found in Sir Winston Churchil Park.
A police spokesman said they had no idea what Andrew Lewis was doing there.
Boom! Boom!
LOL! If only he could shed his skin and re-invent himself.
DeleteSurely it is well worth paying a few hundred pounds to find out what was demanded during the airbrushed Jersey revolution. How short-sighted of the States to refuse.
ReplyDeleteThis little known but obviously very important episode in Jersey's secret history is hardly going to be the sort of thing our Lords and Masters want celebrated. Might plant the seeds of an idea in young heads.
ReplyDeleteYou know, I was thinking today about the proposition to reform the role of the bailiff, and it reminded me that there is another unelected and unaccountable crown appointee in the island, but who is virtually invisible... the lieutenant governor.
ReplyDeleteIf the portrait painted by the local media is anything to be believed, the role is a nice little sinecure for ex military to quietly top up their pension for a few years, and involves little more than wearing fancy dress, laying the odd wreath, and munching on cucumber sarnies at garden parties.
My guess is that the reality is rather different, and the LG has a lot more power and is a lot more interventionist than perhaps we imagine.
Which analysis, if true, begs the question why successive LGs have failed to protect Her Maj's loyal subjects from the foibles of some of her other appointees.
I think the role and apparent inaction of Jersey's governors would make an excellent topic for a VFC posting. Who knows... if you head up to that nice house we pay for on St Saviour's Hill, you might even get an interview to go with the cucumber sandwich!
I wouldn't bank on that cucumber sandwich. I am certain I once read on the blogs, might even have been this one, some years ago this little gem of a story. Apparently when former Deputy Shona Pitman visited Cover-Up House because she was looking in to a proposition on making the UK foot the bill instead of us (must have been a chilly interview LOL!) and wanted to hear the main man's own view of what exactly he did to justify the cost. Our esteemed LG (can't remember which one it was but I know he wore a silly hat) did not offer her so much as a glass of water over several hours according to her while he had his tea and shortbreads brought in. Must have been about as welcome as poor Tom Gruchy and his hordes of pitch fork waving yokels.
DeleteVFC's previous blog posting
ReplyDeletehttp://voiceforchildren.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/former-police-chief-statement-to.html
is now up to a massive 435 published comments!
The poor troll can't stop himself
His latest efforts is:
"Anonymous 29 September 2017 at 07:59
I'd think twice about allowing the hyperlinking of words like 'Paedo-Troll' to stories on Andrew Lewis.
I'll tell you now, he is out to destroy you is looking for revenge."
BTW the posters name "NOT a 'Paedo-Troll" merely links to http://ricosorda.blogspot.com/
Better than the infamous "this Nurse-M, he is going to kill your family"
Death threats are not funny and led to a prosecution
Threats that Lewis is going to get you are simply hilarious!
Can't see how your posts are helping debate on here.
DeleteNot really knowing the ins and outs of this post, surely the only reason anybody would do a link with the words Paedo-Troll is to upset people?
DeleteThere's no need for it. Lets stick to debate without the sly little attacks on people which have become boring.
Andrew Lewis setting out to destroy somebody for what they have written would make an interesting spectacle. It's very notable that not a single one of those individuals regularly named on those blog as having conspired to sack Graham Power have taken legal action. It's funny how Deputy Lewis is so very brave at attacking people when hiding behind parliamentary privilege, but doesn't have the stones to do so when not protected.
DeleteI would love to see Stuart Syvret cross examine Andrew Lewis in open court!
I'd love to see Stuart Syvret finally cross examined period.
DeleteNo idea about Lewis but bound to be bitter.
Ex Health Minister Syvret would love to have been cross examined too. One of his reasons for suspecting the CoI was a fake was it's announcement that it would NOT be "cross examining" witnesses. (when a genuine CoI would!)
DeleteBizarrely it later announced that it HAD "cross examined" Lenny Harper. An announcement that they did not make concerning anyone else.
All Health Minister Syvret required was legal representation (also normal)
He did not require anything special like Lewis's indemnity against lying.
Anyone who makes excuses for the CoI not subpoenaing the Health Minister to a £24m Abuse in Care Inquiry is either thick or has dubious motives -motives they would deny of course.
Lewis is "bound to be bitter" ......says 9:01
Lewis made his own bed and he can Lie Lie Lie in it.
Don't you think the unlawfully suspended Chief of Police and the HUNDREDS of abused children might have more cause to be bitter than the weak and evil AL?
No Stuart, the Report for the inquiry that you out of hundreds of others never attended concluded that the suspension of Graham Power had no baring on Operation Rectangle.
DeleteObviously had you been brave and had gone to the Inquiry and shown them evidence to the contrary then we may be having a different conversation.
Repetitive posts of 'what might have been' are a bit late in the day.
Quite a hilariously, if inadvertently, accurate assertion in the comment by repetitive clown at 14:12. You are quite correct, the report did indeed fail to lay bare the truth. For example, exactly why Andrew Lewis was so keen to sack Graham Power, and then lie about it. Most diligent investigators would be quite interested to know why... given that the question gets right to the heart of why child abjse was tolerated for so long. But no, seemingly, Ms Oldham.
DeleteBut do carry on making a twat of yourself.
Calling me names will not change the Report's findings or Stuart Syvret's failure to influence the Care Inquiry by not giving evidence.
DeleteI do wonder why the same subject keeps on getting regurgitated on here with the same petty insults.
Perhaps it is because people like you keep regurgitating the same crap? The COI report wasn't handed down to Moses carved in stone - it isn't infallible. And the notion that sacking Graham Power and replacing him with a fraudulent shyster had no "baring" is patent rubbish. The obvious fact that it killed any trust victims of abuse had in the police is just for starters. But I'm sure "the abuse survivors you know were perfectly happy with the appointment of David Warcup".
DeleteSo do carry on with your repetitive rubbish, and we will carry on calling you out on it.
"The COI report wasn't handed down to Moses carved in stone - it isn't infallible."
DeleteIts the ONLY Report constructed of its kind though.
Its the ONLY Report the States are following and its the ONLY Report on historic child abuse that will only ever be in the archives for future generational reference. We can pretend something bigger out there in the wilderness of the Internet is better and bolder but I am a realist and will say nothing like this will ever happen again.
"I am a realist and will say nothing like this will ever happen again."
DeleteIt will happen again and again. There will be plenty more cover ups.
It is the cover ups which have got us into this mess and left children being buggered until they bleed, or tortured with water or lighted cigarettes.
It has happened many times before and it will happen again
That is the consequence
Are you happy helping it happen?
16:41 - what twaddle. If the best you can say is that the report will be in the archives for future generations, then it is worthless.
DeleteAll Jersey has ever needed is the proper rule of law. All Jersey has ever had is the rule of lawyers. As long as that continues, the corruption and abuses will also continue. The COI comppletely failed to address that fundamental failure.
I said this is the ONLY Report the States are following.
DeleteIf you are unhappy about this Report then raise it with the States but there is sweet FA I can do about it, so don't waste your time blaming me.
You are merely to blame for not stating that cover ups are not OK
DeleteBecause cover ups (and failing to identify them) are one of the things which enable the abuse
I doubt that you are of any more significance/blame than that - but the way you go on @17:18 , I do wonder.
"If you are unhappy about this Report then raise it with the States" etc etc. constantly suggesting that everything is fine and referring back to the same broken system which ...
....IF we must remind you "left children being buggered until they bleed, or tortured with water or lighted cigarettes."
Do you see the problem now?
Why is it that the Rag gives so many column inches to anti gay haters like the bonkers Reverend Ashenden and tax dodger proudfeet? It is hardly indicative of a quality, caring and intelligent newspaper
ReplyDeleteBit of an irony that Gorst wants a Speaker elected from within the States. Most Members could not carry an coherent argument let alone speech in a three handled bucket. How many could actually do the job in terms of both intelligence and commitment to fairness?
ReplyDeletePrecisely why the net has to be opened up wider than just States members.
DeleteAs the Proposition stands, the States loses one of its most able (to clarify, there are many kinds of ability but to be presiding officer you do need to be very intelligent in the usual sense of that word) members.
And the States and the island can ill afford that
Why not have Geoff Southern as States Speaker? He is fairly articulate even if he hardly ever gets in the news these days.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Ann Pryke as speaker or or Ed Ed Edd Eddi Eddie No No Noel....
ReplyDeleteThat is an inspired suggestion. It has to be Ann Pryke!!
DeletePhilip Ozouf, he hasn't got much to do.
DeleteAnn Pryke? Please no! States Sittings will n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-ever finish.
DeleteOr will it be somoene from the 'great and the good' of the Island in a similar vein as to how the Jurats are chosen...
ReplyDeleteThe Beano is not the Rag
VFC, not comments of the usual high standard. Why are you letting this happen?
ReplyDeleteSo write something intelligent then Baryy Bright-Spark. Sometimes a little humour is necessary to stop one crying.
Delete@19:37 perhaps you are not reading.
DeleteHere is a great one liner from earlier today:
"All Jersey has ever needed is the proper rule of law. All Jersey has ever had is the rule of lawyers. As long as that continues, the corruption and abuses will also continue."
It cuts to the heart of the problem -we have the rule of Lawyers NOT the rule of law
Separation of powers NOW !
Why not an outsider with political knowledge? An ex politician would likely be better than a current one. Sure the States would love to offer Big Trev a job. He would be great at it too. The irony of him replacing Bailhache would be priceless.
ReplyDeleteIt would be funny to see the little red lights of Bailhache, Gorst, Ozouf and Routier being ever so innocently missed instead of the progressives.
DeleteI think VFC gets the moderation of comments about right.
ReplyDeletePerhaps allowing a bit too much repetition of misrepresentation and downright lies from the Peado trolls.
However this comment from the end of last blog bears repeating because it may have been missed and because of it's quality:
Anonymous29 September 2017 at 22:14
May I offer some advice to VFC? A great deal of the comment exchange above
[http://voiceforchildren.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/former-police-chief-statement-to.html]
does this blog no credit. A distinguishing factor between this blog and Jersey's msm is usually the elevated intellectual quality of debate. Whilst it is also true that a broad allowance of freedom of speech in contrast with Jersey's money media is a feature of this blog, sometimes you give too much latitude. There comes a time when absolute 'free-speech, i.e. letting any old garbage through, actually opposes and damages intellectual standards. If I were to make any criticism of the moderation of this site, that would be it.
Let me take the above trolling against the Pitmans and Syvret as an example. The point at issue is the objective administration of justice. Only that. This is a settled, uncontroversial, long established principle in British justice. Whether the Pitmans were right or wrong to pursue the libel action is a secondary consideration, Always and entirely. The primary consideration, the founding principle, is 'was the administration of justice in the case lawful and objective?'
If it was not, then the Pitmas win. And that is an end on it.
Thieves, rapists, murderers, have been acquitted in British courts, the cases against them collapsed, overturned, thrown out, notwithstanding their apparent guilt, at the merest hint of bias, lack of objectivity, of appearance of bias, in the judicial functions against them.
That is the foundation of the rule of law in the British tradition. Not only must justice be done, it must be seen to be done.
That point is so beyond all credible contention, that VFC lets itself down by giving space to trolling which seeks to make excuses for the conflicted, biased courts of Jersey. We could accept, for argument's sake, the Pitmans were legal wrong to bring the defamation action. That would make no difference in the face of the question, 'did the court have apparent bias?'
I repeat, if the answer to that question is 'yes', and it so clearly is 'yes' in this case, then the Pitmans win. And that is an end on it.
Less tolerance of trolling please VFC, or you risk driving away your thinking readers.
As said on this thread
Delete""All Jersey has ever needed is the proper rule of law" not "the rule of lawyers"
With the rule of law, Big Trev and Shona get their house back....
and children are better protected
On http://voiceforchildren.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/former-police-chief-statement-to.html
ReplyDeleteThere are now 438 comments published
This 438 includes a spattering of troll-poop
VFC, can you give us an update on how much troll-poo you filtered out?
156 comments deemed not suitable for publication in previous post, and 31 for this posting.
DeleteThis Blog is being spoilt by these repetitive posts.
ReplyDeleteWe all know the score about the Courts, Stuart Syvret and Trevor & Shona Pitman so do we have to read about it on here every day?
This latest story is about the 18th Century Corn Riots and the States lack of implementing its celebration. Lets stick to the headings of these threads please.
"We all know the score about the Courts, Stuart Syvret and Trevor & Shona Pitman"
DeleteThank god for that!
If only it were true.
However, when there is a comment indicating that someone does NOT know this or the causal factors of Jersey's ills; then it is appropriate that they be told.
The repetition of this information is indeed tiresome for those who already have that knowledge or the intelligence to understand it.
It is however necessary to inform those less fortunate.
These repetitive comments are pretty obvious so you cam probably skip to the next and save your valuable time.
Suitable subjects for discussion include how to ensure that "We all know the score about the Courts, Stuart Syvret and Trevor & Shona Pitman" is true of the offline community and how the blogs can reach out for broader coverage and how this might translate into electoral success for candidates of better quality and integrity than we currently "enjoy".
This latest story is about the 18th Century Riots but also about the parallels with today and the lack of real progress over the last two! centuries.
To illustrate the point, here is a cut and paste of the first section of
https://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/The_Revolution_of_1769
"The two famous revolutions of the 18th century, the American War of Independence of 1775 –1783 and the French Revolutionary War that started in 1789, were preceded by a minor little skirmish in Jersey that history has largely forgotten. But the issues that caused Jersey people to rebel against their autocratic government and the dreadful poverty that many endured were remarkably similar, and the 'little event' was to prove just as important to the Islanders as the more famous rebellions were to the American and French peoples.
In Jersey during the 18th century, government was in the hands of the rich few. The Bailiff was Lord Granville, who lived in England, never visited the Island and took little interest in its affairs. He was descended from the de Carteret family and they were virtually hereditary Bailiffs for several centuries. In 1769 Charles Lempriere served as Lieut-Bailiff in a Royal Court that was the all powerful governmental and administrative body. There was a very weak States Assembly over which he presided, too.
Democratic representation was almost unknown. Only the wealthier men of the Island’s 25,000 residents voted for the Parish Constables and Centeniers and Charles Lempriere, Seigneur of Rozel, Dielement and many other fiefs, filled the important positions with his relatives, like brother Philip as Attorney-General and Receiver of the Revenues. His father, father-in-law, cousins and brothers-in-law were Jurats and this was a time when Jurats were much more important then they are today.
The Lieut-Governor was a very weak and sick man named Thomas Ball, described by the political writer Dr John Shebbeare as a man “who possessed no more idea than an oyster, and like that animal, seldom opened his mouth but to take in fluids”.
Not only did Islanders endure a despotic form of government, but the remains of a feudal system still prevailed and the land was divided up into hundreds of fiefs over which Seigneurs had the right to extract tithes from the unfortunate people who lived there.
There was/is a great, detailed but readably brief for people 'who know everything about Jersey's courts' attached to the proposition which resulted in Reform Day becoming official. It must be good or Trevor Pitman made the speech of his life! How else did this highlighting of establishment anarchy ever get passed by the States? But it is well worth a read if a link to the proposition can still be made after all of these years?
DeleteLet's go off subject.
ReplyDeleteNice little write up on mis-reporting in Jersey media on this establishment zealot:
http://tonymusings.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/the-bishops-gambit-gavin-ashendens.html
"And yet, for a Minister who has resigned as Queen’s Chaplain, and then said he is leaving the Church of England, to then tell the media he has been consecrated a Bishop should set alarm bells ringing."
"Gavin himself has stated he does not believe women priests in the Church of England can be validly ordained. He sees them as “dressing up” as priests, which is ironic as it comes from someone now “dressing up” as a Bishop in a Church outside the Church of England."
"Christian Episcopal Church - 0.0003 million, about 300 members (worldwide)." - "Bishop of a smaller puddle than Jersey, but he still bought the fancy dress LOL
The JEPaedo will no doubt title his letters and articles by "BISHOP Ashenden
I do hope Ashenden is actually GOING to Canada
-Oh Crap!
Gavin Ashenden would make a great States speaker on one level. Useless Women like Susie Pinel, Kristina Moore and Anne Pryke would have to shut up.
ReplyDeleteLook I hold no brief for these individuals. They are too Tory for me for a start. But let's be honest there are a greater number of useless, right wing men in the States. Because there are fewer women in the States they are more visible and thus come in for a greater level of criticism. I am a man by the way.
DeleteSorry to bring this up again, but its very topical, relevant and important. Deputy A Lewis is carrying on as if nothing has happened. Well it has, and he should not even be sitting in the States anymore. He has been classed as a liar by the vast majority of his fellow States members and this alone should be enough to raise concern. Its very, very topical, relevant and important and its not going away.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4937366/Ted-Heath-abused-boys-young-11.html
ReplyDeleteNearly 100 comments already! Busy as ever. Interesting blog. More people should know about this important historical event.
ReplyDeleteWas Ted Heath a good mate of Birt and the Bailhaches?
ReplyDelete"Was Ted Heath a good mate of Birt and the Bailhaches?"
DeleteBirt and the Bailhaches were probably in more junior positions but Heath was probably hobnobbing with people above them.
One of the better known of Heath's Jersey connections was with Mike Wavell
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/edward-heaths-secret-jersey-hideaway-6220926
Mike Wavell became political controller of Jersey's Police and "inexplicably" gave "Male Nurse-M" a job in his private nursing homes after "Nurse-M" was dismissed from the Jersey Hospital for professional misconduct including the theft of lethal and undetectable drug cocktails from the hospital.
The investigation into the spate of deaths while he was on duty and also the allegations of rape was "inexplicably" pulled by the AG
Unfortunately there is an explanation of all these "inexplicable" events and it involves corruption and the cover up of serious crimes over decades.
Decades of unprosecuted child abuse is only one facet of the Jersey problem.
Don't forget the key players in the Jervis-Dykes Victoria College abuse cover up. Head Master resigned but once flak had subsided came back and threatened to sue I have it on inside authority. Got massive pay out and his pension. One Vice-Principle immediately upon resigning given cushy, well paid job at harbours. Still there I believe. Other Vice-Principle allowed to take early retirement when shit about to hit the fan. Got job in finance but more importantly rewarded with a prestigous job as a Jurat and the title for life. What is the Chief Minister planning to do abount any of this?
DeleteUnfortunately I think we know the shameful answer to that question. Nothing.
DeleteOff topic (maybe?) but I just watched a brilliant interview you did with ex Deputy Pitman on his non-questioning by the COI. I flag this up because it struck me that not only was this hugely discourteous to the then Deputy himself, and worrying about how seriously the COI was taking matters such as Jersey's judiciary. But also regarding the issue of ex Senator Syvret.
ReplyDeleteHe has taken huge amounts of flak about not giving evidence. Nevertheless if Mr Syvret will have watched Pitman's treatement I really can understand him thinking why the hell should I waste my time? I am not saying he was right not to appear. Just flagging up whether it really would have made any difference given how one of his former colleagues was treated.
You can throw the COI's dealing with Bob Hill into that mix also.
DeleteVery true. Two highly articulate - extremely so in Pitman's case - full of intelligent and deeply considered evidence. Hill was even a former police officer. Yet treated with little more than contempt.
DeleteI do hope they will be inviting Trevor Pitman over to open and speak at the Reform Day exhibition celebrating five, no SIX years of the Bailiff, two Bailiffs, blocking in flag-flying on the 28th September each year in 2019. The JEP quote the States Greffier saying such inaction is not acceptable and he is right.
ReplyDeleteThere is no known portrait of Thomas James Gruchy or any of his supporters - except Dr Shebbeare. Capt Gruchy lived in Boston for some years as a privateer and merchant so its possible that one exists in the USA somewhere. The illustration on the Tom Gruchy blog is a 19th century cartoon and depicts a scribbler with a law book on libel - just in case. The Constable of Trinity agreed to look for Tom Gruchy's grave in Trinity Churchyard where he was buried in 1780. He is presumably still looking. The scribbled out text in the Court Record of 28 September 1769 is still scribbled out. Police Chief Mike Bowron's team tried to reveal it with their super duper machine but the Archive had hoped that the Customs Dept even more super machine might do it - but nothing yet. The Education Minister recently confirmed that the events re 28 September are taught in schools and that details should be available on the Education web-site. I have not yet found this. There was no support for annual awards for an art work or other creation to celebrate the events of 28 September. PPC under Constable Norman have agreed to make some sort of official celebration of the 250th anniversary in 2019
ReplyDeleteAs Constable Len Norman's PPC had colluded with disregarding the ECHR. This by failing to support bringing Jersey's States of Jersey Law on bankruptcy in line with the Uk. Who we usually follow doggedly no doubt the PPC led celebration of the storming of the Royal Court will consist of a drinks party for States Members. Norman's toast being "Our tireless disregard for justice has ensured the Judiciary's cunning plan to keep the trouble-making Pitmans from being allowed to stand again for re-election will remain." Good old Len. An Establishment Team player through and through.
DeleteSo according to the States Greffier nothing planned for 2018 either. Disgraceful. The States put out calendars and diaries. Bet there is not even anything on these. Ordered by successive Bailiffs for sure.
ReplyDeleteI have looked again for evidence that Jersey Reform Day is taught in Jersey but cannot find it. Under the "History" syllabus there is some reference to the Battle of Jersey 1781 etc but nothing about 1769. I did note that Walter Raleigh is still referred to as Sir Walter and not as the pirate traitor executed in 1618 which is more than a simple matter of selective historical interpretation...he was Gov of Jersey after all when he committed the act of treason....this is a link but suppose it won't work here; https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Education/ID%20Jersey%20Curriculum%20History%2020160531%20PH.pdf
ReplyDeleteA specific question is needed to Rod Worst speech of all time (Abe Lincoln Gorst) Bryans asking him to highlight precisely where it is being taught and what information. Doubt they are telling kids that the Bailiff and Court were bent as they should.
DeleteBryans Lincoln speech was rubbish. Everyone who has seen the film knows that the US President was also a vampire hunter in his spare time. Bryans didn't altert States members to any of this aspect of our Chief Minister's bravery. Anyone who can hammer a stake through the heart of one of the undead would get my vote.
DeleteTrinity must have a bloody big church yard if the Constable hasn't found Tom Gruchy five years after the vote? How hard are they looking?
DeleteAndrew The Worm Lewis now sucking up to people by calling for a higher minimum wage. Could this be because he knows that after the next election he will be working in McDonalds?
ReplyDeleteHe bahaved like Ronald McDonald at the Care Inquiry. Only needed the big wig, clown make-up and great big shoes. Dead ringer.
DeleteI've seen a very damning carton of french fries from the menue...
Delete"When I said to Members that I had seen the menu I didn't mean the damning McDonald's menu - I meant the damning menu from Burger King."
Delete
ReplyDeleteBBC radio topical interview yesterday about rents landlords and standards which came over as biased by the lady reporter.
The facts that emerged were.
Steve Luce planning minister says there are one or two bad landlords. No there are more than that but also bad tenants. He is correct though, just a small minority.
Steve Luce sad that the majority of land lords private and registered ( lodging houses ) run decent quality accommodation one or two do not. July 2017.
Environmental officers already follow up and have access to accommodation that is badly sub standard. They highlight the small minority to try and get this law passed.
Housing have access to private houses that rent ( illegally ) to more than five lodgers with prosecution and stiff fines for those that break the law.
There is not enough casual private or social rental accommodation on the island.
A lady interviewed as a renter said that the problem was to great a demand and a new inspection law would " NOT " help.
The States immigration policy is known to favour mass immigration.
The States rake off 20% directly in tax from most private rents after expenses. They take £27 million of Andium each year. A very nice earner.
R. Weston said that some accommodation was as it was, because the renters did not expect gold taps and therefore the better accommodation cost more. Andium Homes ( social housing ) had increased rents in line with the private sector and could not provide enough accommodation without the 8,000 private landlords who do.
The states policy agrees with the fatally flawed argument that younger people ( immigrants ) need to work to pay the pensions of the retired. This argument has been completely discredited as they to will need more workers when they too retire. It is called a Ponzie scheme and is not the answer.
Anne Pryke failed with health police inspecting everyone’s life style and home. So it is the planning’s go now to invade private homes that rent a room.
Steven Luce with advice from his department (seeking more work) want to inspect every house that rents. Estimate cost £350,000 for new inspectors wages to be passed on to private landlords to be passed on to tenants.
Result more cost from a growing army of civil servants empire building, expect rent increases and more red tape very soon if the states pass this, plus greater demand as a percentage of private renters withdraw from the rental market making the shortage more severe.
Seems very quiet for such an interesting story. Are the moderators otherwise engaged today?
DeleteI was going to say that I would like to see someone, possibly Deputy Tadier, renew Trevor Pitman's calls for a memorial to Tom Gruchy and this brave public demonstration.
A statue is long overdue. Perhaps with a big engraved slab telling the true story of Jersey's corrupt and power mad Bailiffs
DeleteA question for former Senator Syvret or London lawyer.
ReplyDeleteDo either know who actually handles concerns raised in Jersey at Westminster?
Is it the Home Office?
Or is it this shadowy Channel Islands Office I have been told about?
I foolishly thought our affairs came under the Privy Council.
Will William Bailhache's massively inflated salary be cut in half as it should if the States vote for Gorst's watered down dual role proposition?
ReplyDeleteIf the Bailiff is ousted as States speaker my money is on a Bailhache and Birt push to con us in to Independence.
ReplyDeleteHeath in a small sailing boat with what appears to be a teenage boy and an adult male has emerged. It is not thought to have been published before, but is understood to have been taken in Jersey in 1972
ReplyDelete"Meanwhile, the picture above of Heath in a small sailing boat with what appears to be a teenage boy and an adult male has emerged. It is not thought to have been published before, but is understood to have been taken in Jersey in 1972, while Heath was prime minister. Its copyright owner is unknown. ANYONE with information about the picture is asked to come forward.
DeleteDespite claims that Heath never drove, Operation Conifer found that he owned two cars. I can also reveal that it discovered that he had two sets of numbers plates for one of them, and can find no explanation for this irregular arrangement."
Rest of text and the photo is available here:
www.foiacentre.com/news-Edward-Heath-Mike-Veale.html
Why has the UK never done a thing about our Bailiifs protecting abusers. allowing them to have jobs in the honorary police and even giving jobs as Jurats to others who disregard abuse of little boys? The UK does have a responsibility for law and order after all?
ReplyDeleteDo you happen to know what Pitman thinks about sod all having been done five years after his successful proposition?
ReplyDeleteIf he has any sense he will no longer care a damn. Our island is full of people who don't care about corruption so long as it doesn't land on them. That is how this island works isn't it. The point will surely come and probably has when the last of the brave says stuff you Jersey people. Who could blame them.
DeleteA good and informative interview Team Voice. Well done to Mike Dun as well. Many truths. The judicial screwing of the proposition's mover Trevor Pitman and his equally brave wife remains a black stain on our island. How this has not been overturned by our great Queen I do not know. Well I do know. She just doesn't give a fig about her peculiar possession.
ReplyDeleteHey VFC
ReplyDeleteI came across this interesting FOI request:
https://www.gov.je/Government/Pages/StatesReports.aspx?ReportID=3149
In particular, the August 08 entry for a UK Officer (on secondment, one presumes):
"Report submitted to Acting Chief Officer about unauthorised leak of information to the press. Suspect not identified. Insufficient evidence to proceed with investigation."
I thought the prime suspect had actually admitted doing the leaking?
The Jersey Way...
Interested to see the REPORT.
ReplyDeleteAn Authentic Narrative of the Oppressions of the Islanders of Jersey: To Which Is Prefixed A Succinct History Of The Military Actions Constitution Laws Customs And Commerce Of That Island
ReplyDeleteBy John Shebbeare
http://www.ebooksdownloads.xyz/search/an-authentic-narrative-of-the-oppressions-of-the-islanders-of-jersey
Please will people kindly download this e-book and upload it on as many places as possible for others to freely download BEFORE THE ABOVE WEB PAGE IS TAKEN DOWN.
New posting:
ReplyDeleteBoris BAILHACHE.
I am intrigued by the fact stated in this blog post that Tom and his associates would have been charged with "sedition".
ReplyDeleteThat is another word for treason.
So calling for enough food to eat, for an end to selliong corn abroad thus raising the price to unaffordable levels, etc. was going to be punished as "TREASON".
A commenter on another post referred to Jersey's new Law on Treason. This is 137 words long (omitting page numbers etc.)
There is no definition of treason. The Law enables all offences of treason in Jersey to be tried in the Royal Court. The maximum sentence is Life imprisonment.
And now - who is up for re-enacting a march on the Royal Court demanding justice?