On the 21st of February 2012 Deputy Trevor Pitman asked an oral question, in the States Chamber, of the Home Affairs Minister Senator Ian Le Marquand and the question reads.
“Will the Minister advise what rights, if any, members of the public have to be informed by the police that their neighbours have a large arsenal of weapons in their homes?"
Readers will note that the word "gun" does not appear ANYWHERE in the question. This did not stop Channel Television running with the headline DOES YOUR NEIGHBOUR OWN A GUN?.
The reason the word "gun" did not appear in Deputy Pitman's question is because the question had NOTHING to do with guns.......But since when have the State Media let the truth get in the way of a good (Tooth Fairy) story?
Below is an interview with Deputy Trevor Pitman and one of his constituents "Tony" (the instigator of the question).
Tony is a 64 year old grandfather who has, for the last 14 months, along with his wife and family members, been living in fear after seemingly being let down by the police, judicial system, and just about every other public administration in Jersey including parts of the State Media.
This is a story of a family that feel terrorised who, according to Tony, can't have their grandchildren visit them at home through fear of another attack from the person, Tony tells us, was found with the large arsenal of weapons (not guns) and has already fired large ball bearings, from a high powered catapult, through the windows of his house.
It's a story of "real life" in Jersey how victims of crime have no rights and are left to live in fear of their perpetrators with no support from the authorities. It once more raises questions of our judicial system how a person can, reportedly be found with an arsenal of weapons, plead not guilty and have the case dismissed.
It also raises the question as to what motives lay behind the State Media's misrepresenting of this story?
Who turned this story into a gun issue.
ReplyDeleteI would of thought this could be investigated through a care in the community perspective used as an angle to highlight the events discussed with the issue Mr. Pitman raised.
Sadly unless a tragedy occurs it will be a case of ''nothing to do with me'' I am pleased to see the police acted accordingly in referring the case to court.
The families fears and concerns of the issues Mr. Pitman enquired after are now in the public domain and it would seem the buck stops with the law officers.
Posted on cctv website alas they din't thick it correct.
ReplyDeleteDeputy Trevor Pitman does NOT mention the word GUN in any of his statements. cctv scare mongering AGAIN!!!
This story really does beggar belief, and is made even worse by the action of the Police Legal Advisor. Case dismissed!!
ReplyDeleteHow dreadful it must be for this family living in such circumstances day and night through no fault of their own, and seemingly nothing can be done about it.
Only in Jersey......
Even if there were guns involved, the CTV headline would still be wrong - because there is all the difference in the world between one gun - which in some circumstances might be reasonable - and an "arsenal of weapons", which (outwith the armed forces) is not.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is that there were and almost certainly still are such arsenals of weapons in Jersey. Check out this. The relevant part is paras 10-22.
The idea that people might have the sort of weaponry described is enough case for me to want a proper investigation of the matter, and the fact that the local judicial system think otherwise is downright scary. That Trevor Pitman raises this is to his credit.
And I did forget to say VFC, how refreshing to get a full and proper interview, giving the true facts to this rather scary story.
ReplyDeleteDoes Trevor have an explanation into how this case was misrepresented by channel and turned into a gun licencing issue, if as he claimed guns were not mentioned.?
ReplyDelete"Does Trevor have an explanation into how this case was misrepresented by channel "
ReplyDeleteEXPLAINED
Although Deputy Pitman might have another explanation and it might have something to do with his earlier Scrutiny Sub Panel's findings that involved CTV.
Excellent Interview Voice
ReplyDeleteWho was the magistrate?
The media coverage comes into the spotlight yet again.
It looks like Oscar Puffin isn't the only one with a hand up the backside. They just don't care. Look what is happening in the UK regards the press/ media if they checked out our situation they would bloody collapse in awe. The UK press would love to be able to peddle garbage like our lot.
Well done for getting this horrific story out. The real side of a real story.
rs
Rico.
ReplyDeleteThree guesses.
brilliant interview. good to see the truth behind the media stories.wonder what would happen if the rest of us had a few petrol bombs.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that you need to consider proposing a new legal right in this case, shows how dangerously aberrant Jersey's system has become.
ReplyDeleteCenturies of tested English Common Law has inspired various statutory protections in jurisdictions the world over against continued demonstrable risk from violent neighbors.
Jersey law should already cover some form of an established right to "Quiet Enjoyment," of one's property, for starters. There may already be multiple rights for the victim in existing case law, although the feudalistic nature of the courts may, in practice, prevent reasonable access to those existing protections.
At the very least, the violent neighbor has shown himself to be a "Public Nuisance," and statutes governing this should apply to even non-violent conduct which interferes with other neighbors' health, safety, peace or convenience.
It is doubtful Jersey has insufficient laws for this. What we have seen from multiple views of your island's scandals has been a corruption of existing rights, even when an enshrined remedy exists.
In effect, there is no just remedy if those which should apply for this situation are not truly enforceable in practice.
A just remedy must be legally enshrined and, to be at all meaningful, it must be enforceable in practice. A claim of, or pretense to democracy should have a testable set of remedies available to regular citizens.
The failure of Jersey to properly enforce any existing laws is the larger, and much more troubling problem. A potential legal right to know if your neighbor possesses a stockpile of dangerous materials - even when has shown himself willing to use them against innocent people - will not provide the acceptable statutory protection you are looking for.
NLH
A good idea would of been to see the CTV video spliced on to the end of the interview given by Mr Pitman and his constituent.
ReplyDeleteCTV never raised the issue of the constituents fear which led to the very serious question being asked, in the States of Jersey by Mr. Pitman. That question never mentioned guns.
You can bet if the person lived next door to one of the law officers it would be dealt with pronto
Below is a comment left by "Ted." I've taken the persons name out and replaced it with "the assailant."
ReplyDeleteFrom Ted.
I have been closely involved with this case from day 1 and assisted "Tony" with his letters of complaints to the Police. I must say that from my point of view the way this case has been handled by the appropriate authorities is shockingly poor. It appears delay tactics may have been used to hope "Tony" would lose interest in his pursuit of having the full truth being heard in Court.
A full statement of events and information was provided by Tony to the Police, however none of this was seemingly used in Court, only the assailant’s version of events was portrayed. Strangely the first Court case was heard after the public and Media had left the Court
for lunch, almost as if behind closed doors!
The Assailant pleads not guilty to possesion of the weapons and the case was I believe referred back to the Police Legal Advisors and amazingly dropped!
As I understand it the assailant was in posseion of a high powered catapult, steel ballbearings, 2 throwing knives, a Katana sword and petrol bombs were found at his home.
A man who admitted to at night hiding in a tree and waiting to see his intended victims through their windows then fired the steel ballbearings with in his own words "intent to kill or harm" Tony and his wife.
In view of the recent tragedy of the stabbings locally of the 6 people not so long ago I would have thought the Police would have been keen to be seen to be doing all they can to have this incident resolved quickly. However not so, shortly afterwards the assailant was released from the APU without the Police or Tony being notified. The first Tony knew of his release was when confronted by him on his doorstep while holding his 2 year old granddaughter.
The incident occured on January 2nd 2011 and did not go to Court until almost a year later!
Tony has received very unsatisfactory responses to his letters of complaints to the Police and has now been informed that if he wishes to pursue the matter further with a hope of questioning the PLA as to why the case was dropped he must now do so via the Attorney Generals Office.
Oh by the way I think I am correct in stating that the accused attacker is related to a Crowned Magistrate Advocate xxxx xxxx and I understand he has a son who is a practicing local Solicitor too. It's not really for me to ask the question as to whether this may or may not have had any bearing on the case.
Due to Tony's frustration with the authorities both during and after the case with his attempts to have the full truth heard I understand he is now considering contacting a National paper to see if they would possibly be interested in the story.
The details above are only my opinion and to the best of my knowledge are correct.
Good video, well done, shows what an absolute joke the courts and States are over here!
ReplyDeleteWhy do I feel the affidavit of Mr. Harper plays some part in the law officers decisions.
ReplyDeletepolitical decisions being the agenda rather than the issue of the gentleman and his wife living in fear.
You are having a laugh?
ReplyDeleteLook up the word for starters:
ar·se·nal/ˈärs(ə)-nl/
Noun:
A collection of weapons and military equipment stored by a country, person, or group: "Britain's nuclear arsenal".
A place where weapons and military equipment are stored or made.
If you look up 'Arsenal' Football Club they use a picture of a cannon which is a 'big' gun and not a petrol bomb. CTV and the gun club were correct in assuming guns were implied.
Isn’t it amazing? Here we have a story of a terrified 64 year old pensioner who has been the victim of a cowardly attack and let down by Jersey’s entire Public administration, including the State Media, and we have a commenter looking up the word “arsenal” in a dictionary….priceless……..bl—dy priceless.
ReplyDeleteHowever the commenter is, IMO, wrong in his/her assumption when they quote this.
“CTV and the gun club were correct in assuming”
CTV were completely WRONG in ASSUMING anything. They are supposed to be professional “journalists.” They are supposed to be trusted to get the “facts”, verify the “facts” and then impart the “facts” not just go and publish what they “assume.”
Why would CTV and the gun club need to assume anything.
ReplyDeleteThe clue is in the question. CTV obviously by reporting on Mr Pitmans question would known that. So why the spin?
A collection of weapons and military equipment stored by a country, person, or group: "Britain's nuclear arsenal".
ReplyDeleteA place where weapons and military equipment are stored or made.
sorry to be pedantic still no mention of guns in the definition provided.
should I assume that to be so?
For the clever chap who posted the definition of "arsenal" - have a look at the following.It's very easy to be selective with definitions - just ask ILM about his definition of "scandal"!
ReplyDeleteNo - CTV were not right in their report.
ar·se·nal [ahr-suh-nl, ahrs-nuhl]
noun
1.
a place of storage or a magazine containing arms and military equipment for land or naval service.
2.
a government establishment where military equipment or munitions are manufactured.
3.
a collection or supply of weapons or munitions.
4.
a collection or supply of anything; store: He came to the meeting with an impressive arsenal of new research data.
Origin:
1500–10; (< Middle French ) < Italian arzanale < Upper Italian ( Venetian ) arzanà dockyard < Arabic dār ṣināʿah workshop (literally, house of handwork); initial d probably taken as a form of the preposition di from
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2012.
OR THIS:
World English Dictionary
arsenal (ˈɑːsən ə l)
— n
1. a store for arms, ammunition, and other military items
2. a workshop or factory that produces munitions
3. a store of anything regarded as weapons: an arsenal of destructive arguments
[C16: from Italian arsenale dockyard, from the original Venetian arsenal dockyard and naval store, from Arabic dār sīn`ah, from dār house + sīn`ah manufacture]
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
MEET THE SHREDDER
ReplyDeleteThinking about it I'm sure Deputy Pitman told me that he had, in his interview with CTV, given them all the facts of this story but they chose to edit it to suit their own agenda but I could be mistaken so will try and verify.
ReplyDeleteI hope Trevor Pitman realises that he is being watched closely with all of this interference in police matters.
ReplyDeleteLet things take their course is surely the way things should be done.
You don't see senior politicians like our Senators being approached by these people with their complaints.
Doesn't that tell you something?
Just to say thanks Team Voice on behalf of my constituent Tony, his family and myself in getting the real story out.
ReplyDeleteTony was unaware of the strength and quality of Citizens' Media before this but he, and others, now know where to go if their concerns are not being addressed where they should.
Regards.
Trevor
Anonymous @ 21.17.
ReplyDeleteDoes it not tell you something that people feel comfortable and safe in the knowledge that action will be taken on their behalf when they take their issues to politicians like Trevor Pitman?
I think you jest if you imagine that taking these type of problems to a Senator, or many States members would solve anything. Heaven forbid, most do not even reply to e-mails.
Trevor is doing his job properly, as any decent politician should, and far from interfering in police affairs, is highlighting a serious matter and the shortcomings of the police and legal system.
Jill.
ReplyDeleteThe comment was typically intimidatory left by somebody who clearly doesn't know Deputy Pitman. He (Deputy Pitman) doesn't "do" intimidation and comments like that only spur him on, that's the main reason it got published!
The intimidatory bit.
"I hope Trevor Pitman realises that he is being watched closely with all of this interference in police matters."
As for politicians getting involved in policing matters that's something Ben Shenton, Jimmy Perchard and Deputy Sean Power should be reminded of also
Furthermore it is a damming indictment on Jersey's entire public administration, including the State media, that "Tony" had to contact Deputy Pitman in the first place.
Trevor.
You said.
"Tony was unaware of the strength and quality of Citizens' Media before this but he, and others, now know where to go if their concerns are not being addressed where they should."
Tony was very appreciative of the interview and was unaware of the "Blog-scene" and its superior quality to that of the State Media, and like you said he now knows, like a growing number of the public that there is an alternative.
Well done to you and Trevor Pitman for highlighting this terrible incident. We could do with a lot more like Trevor Pitman that is for sure.
ReplyDeleteTalking of good people I was also shocked to hear that recent St. Helier No. 1 candidate Keith Shaw has died suddenly. A really decent chap and a good teacher.
Yes we could certainly do with a lot more like Trevor in the States, there's only a certain amount that the establishment and State Media can dish out "the Syvret Treatment" to and Trevor must be starting to realise how that feels now.
ReplyDeleteThe loss of Keith Shaw is a huge shock and tragedy and our thoughts and condolences are with his family and friends.
testing
ReplyDeleteJust to say a huge thank you to Deputy Pitman for all his time, support and advice with this issue, also thanks to VFC for it's involvement too. All comments and opinions post are appreciated.
ReplyDelete"Tony was unaware of the strength and quality of Citizens' Media before this but he, and others, now know where to go if their concerns are not being addressed where they should." - Deputy Pitman
ReplyDeleteThe strength of citizen media shouldn't be underestimated by Jersey residents. If you look at the " Jersey Child Abuse Scandal" and other blogs showing reader countries you will often see the majority of viewers coming from outside Jersey. It is not unusual to see many from various American states and far fewer from Jersey, itself. I think the world is still looking at the Haut de la Garenne scandal, and they are not accessing Jersey's mainstream media at all.
Bailhache took a pasting at the Town Hall tonight. His spin is in tatters. If Gorst does not withdraw his support then someone should bring a no confidence vote.
ReplyDeleteSenator Bailhache did take a pasting last night at the St Helier Parish Assembly, and if Ian Gorst does intend on supporting him, then he too took a pasting.
ReplyDeleteFifty three people voted to keep the electoral commission "independent" with only three people voting in favour of Senator Bailhache hijacking the commission. That is three more votes than he received at the St. Clement Parish Assembly where the vote was seventeen nil in favour of Deputy Le Herissier's amendment.
That's a pretty compelling indicator to say the public want Senator Bailhache to butt out and let the "independent" commission do its work.
As he should also 'butt out' of anything to do with the Committee of Inquiry into child abuse.
ReplyDeleteGood score anyway 2 - 0 against the Senator. Let us hope there are some more public meetings held on this issue.
Do you know of any planned VFC?
Jill.
ReplyDeleteIt speaks volumes that out of two parish assemblies on this subject that only three people could vote in favour of Senator Bailhache, although not a single person has spoken in favour of him.
You are correct he should butt out of the Committee of Enquiry in to the DECADES of Child Abuse but he has already started his scare mongering by saying it's going to cost millions and millions of pounds.
Thankfully "The Bailhache Era" is coming to an end and not a moment too soon. There are a number of States Members, new and old, as well as members of the public who see Senator Bailhache's move into the political arena as a last desperate throw of the dice to cling on to the feudal power.
There are no more public meetings, that I am aware of, concerning Senator Bailhache's attempted hijacking of the Electoral Commission before it is debated, in the States this coming Tuesday.
Senator Bailhache, is on his way out to pasture! He has too much to lose if he can't elbow someone onto the commitiee.
ReplyDeleteDECADES of abused children now adults who are past the point of being quiet and won't go away.
No States Member should be meddling with individual court cases.
ReplyDeleteYou are almost correct. States members should not “have” to be “meddling” with individual court cases. If you have watched the video you would know that “Tony” has been failed by every part of Jersey’s administration, including parts of the State Media. He, and his family, are living in fear of another attack and has had no support from the relevant agencies. It was out of desperation that he contacted his Deputy and it should never have got to that stage.
ReplyDeleteThey have made that man and his wife prisoners in their own home! How sick and twiated is that - they are the VICTIMS of a crime, and they are in effect the ones who have been imprisoned!
ReplyDelete